Oh ok sounds reasonable
@AJGundam:
Ok here is a question about bidding. What kind of unspoken rules are there about where a country can place a bid? For example what exactly limits where naval units can be placed? Can germany place a submarine in the Pacific or can Japan place a submarine in the mediteranean?
If the rule is not spoken, is it a rule??? :wink:
It seems that it would be a faux pas to bid a unit to a location that is not either inside the starting territories of the country, adjacent to them (naval unit only) or co-located with existing naval units.
That said, there maybe some interesting bid options out there if Germany was allowed to bid a SS in SZ 11, for exampe. Might be a way to liven up an otherwise boring game.
Bid units can only be placed in that countries territories that they control or spaces that already include units (sea zones).
So Germany can’t bid and place any units in Japan’s territories and Japan can’t place in Germany’s territories.
And naval units must be placed in sea zones that already include ships.
Interesting.
We have already seen some discrepancies in the “official” statements regarding where the bid units can go.
Cyan states naval units can go in SZ adjacent to that nation’s territories.
DarthMaximus states naval units can only go in SZ where that nation already has naval units.
Seems like the “unwritten rules” need a little writing… :-o
I’m pretty sure bids must be placed in spots where you already have units, whether it is land or sea. I don’t think G and J have any unoccuppied lands to start so that is not really an issue for land units.
However with sea units consider an 8 bid with a trn to sz 7. I believe this puts Ecan immediately in play for Germany on G1.
Yep. That TRAN in SZ 7 hits EC.
But a TRAN in SZ 12 hits GRN, EC, EUS, PAN, WI, BRA, FWA, FEA and BC.
That can really make for an interesting opening. :evil:
Very true. :-)
Here is one set of bid rules. It is among the most complete sets.
Caspian Sub Bid Rules
1. Roll for high roll to see who gets the first bid.
2. Conduct the bid like “Name that Tuneâ€. The player with the first bid says “I can win with the Axis and X IPCs.â€, where X is the number of IPCs the bidder receives to play the Axis. You are always bidding to play as the Axis.
3. The other player either lets the first player have the bid or counters with a bid that is smaller than the first bid such as, “I can win with the Axis and X-2 IPCs.â€Â This is a bid-down system.
4. Keep going until a bid is accepted. If the bid ‘goes negative’, then the bid becomes “I will take the Axis and give the Allies X IPCs.†Counter-bids then become higher values given to the Allies.
5. Once the bid is accepted there is a pre-game bid placement turn. Whoever is getting the IPCs may buy units to place on the board.
a) Unit costs are normal
b) Land units can be placed in any territory a power controls
c) Naval units can be placed with other naval units or in territories adjacent to a power’s land
d) There is a limit of 1 bid piece per territory
e) Powers cannot put their units in another power’s territory (i.e. no German pieces start in Japanese territory)
f) IPCs do not have to be spent on units. IPCs not spent on units can be given to any of the team’s powers.
6. Play starts as normal with the Soviets.
Discussion of why the rules are crafted this way are in the CSub rules paper, Policy Paper #03.
German Bid 8
TRAN in SZ 12.
G1 SZ 12 TRAN embark ALG INF/ART, -> SZ 18, SZ 22 -> INF occupy BRA, ART remains on TRAN.
US counter now has to deal with Germany in Brazil and Transport with Artillery in range of west coast of Africa and also Panama.
Or Germany could build an ARM/INF on the Eastern Front as a sacrifice to the gods of luck….
Which one is more interesting to you, Crazy Straw?
Again the obsession with grabbing land… who cares about getting brazil when it costs you your bid unit plus 1 Inf 1 Art - US will blow up 15 IPCs of your stuff just so you get 3 IPCs from Brazil. And then next turn they can land in FWA or Algeria anyway, with additional units build US1. Either way US can have a substantial force in Algeria by the end of US2.
1 TRN in SZ 14 is much better anyway.
It is all about the land Buckycat!!! :-D
I figure every turn the US/UK is worried about land that is not in Europe is another turn that the Fatherland is producing 40+ IPC and the IJA is marching on Moscow.
BTW how is the US player going to even touch that TRAN?
The BB in SZ 13 does not survive G1. The only thing that might reach is the BMBR and that is not all that great a move since the BMBR would have to land in FWA which is within reach of the TRAN that took GIB on G1.
So, on US1 the US goes amphib to BRA instead of ALG and BMB to SZ 22, landing in FWA. This gave the German player 3 IPC for Brazil for a turn and assuming unit for unit losses on the amphib landing cost the US 3 IPC and a turn to regain 3 IPC. If the BMB does not get shot down by the TRAN and instead lands in FWA, it is now totally alone and within reach of a BB, TRAN, ARM/INF landing force on G2. That is 27 IPC for the 12 IPC (TRAN and ART) it took. Now the US2 situation is a German amphib group on the coast of Africa. If it has married up with an SS or two it really is getting ugly. It has to be killed because it can hit beachheads from the UK to the Union of South Africa. That was US2. If the US player is successful in doing this and the German player has not built any other significant fleet elements to challenge him, the US player now is looking at US3 for staging an attack into Algeria.
8 IPC plus naval and ground units that would normally be committed to Africa anyway for a three turn delay of US getting across the Atlantic sounds like a good deal to me. Add in numerous opportunities for luck and errors to work in your favor because it is strange and different and now it really looks good.
Either that or sacrifice that ARM/INF to the god of dice on the Eastern Front?
Didn’t really look at a map. If the US can’t hit the Tranny or Brazil on US1, then my analysis is really out to lunch. But even so, as your own post suggests, the true value of the move is not the 3 IPCs you gain from Brazil (though if it lasts 2 rounds that makes it better) but the fact that it keeps US UNITS away from Europe/Africa, giving Germany more of a unit advantage there.
US can hit BRA but the TRAN is around the corner, safe from all but the US BMBR.
Once that wild tranny breaks out into the South Atlantic, all heck breaks loose. Even if the land grab does not last long term, it still keeps the US/UK busy in places besides Europe.
I’m tempted to do a depreciation analysis on IPCs. Like money, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow but that is due to interest rates.
The driving factor for IPC is transport. IPC == combat capability and the sooner you have IPC converted to combat capability the sooner it can get to the front.
If the front is two moves away (and stable) 3 IPC now will put an INF there in two turns but 5 IPC next turn will get an ARM there at the same time. That is a heck of an interest rate!
The US also has the option to ignore it if the cost of pursuing the TRN is too great in terms of diminished pressure on Germany elsewhere. But yeah, could be a nice little move if allowed, and the fact is some players would go for it whether it’s the best use of an 8 IPC bid or not.
So we need a ruling on whether it’s legal. Who is our authority? LHTR? Caspian Sub? The Collective Wisdom of A&A.org (which is rarely collective)
By waht CS posted, it IS a legal bid under C-Sub.
It is NOT a legal bid by the rules we have been using here (units can ONLY be added to:
1. Land territories that the nation already controls
2. Sea Zones that already contain your units.
So you can’t, under our A&A.org rules (this part carried over from Classic Tournaments WAY before my time here), place a naval unit in a vacant sea zone.
Our site, our rules :evil:
Well we all know how to play that one.
Change the venue if you get the wrong answer!!!
8-)
I think folks like our venue though…
Our Tournament this year was double last year’s size :-)
35 total players signed up for the Tournament this year.
[EDIT to clariy - on the topic of “my site, my rules”]
Well on that topic, if I create a game logging mechanism on my dicey, I’m thinking of posting a statement that none of the battles are certified for tournament/league games unless the results are logged. Because as we all know e-mail can be flaky, and this would prevent silly disputes - results would just always be recorded.
I guess I can’t really impose a rule on tournament play, but I do want to protect myself from people blaming my dicey when their results don’t get mailed. Basically just state that unless my site logs the results, I can’t vouch for their authenticity. Because e-mail can be spoofed, but only I can tamper with the logs on my site.
As for people who won’t play me with my own dicey - at present I’m happy to use insite but if ever the time comes that I want to use frood.net myself, I’ll simply decline to play people who don’t trust me. Once I win the tournament with the in-site dice people will know I don’t need to cheat… :evil:
