I doubt it, since the game is out of print.
Clarification on AA gun
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I did use the LHTR though, and it was still causing problems for my friends and I. I tried to argue that you roll for the fighters then the bombers, but after reading the rules, it came across to them that you can choose to pick what plane gets hit. The LHTR, IMHO, still is somewhat unclear. Why the heck didn’t they just outright say, you HAVE to roll first for bombers then fighters? WHYYYYY?@!?!
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i like aa guns tri, they add that element of uncertainty to air raids. if you canned them i would think you would have to scrap sbr’s as well. the more variance you remove from the game the more predictable (boring) it becomes. some guys become known as easy tagets to bomb and some become the city you do not mess with (“snake eyes AGAIN, that is just wrong”) i have seen the aa completely change games and seen it be a complete non-factor which imho i think is cool.
we , by the way, don’t specify the aa target so in a large battle the fighters get hit and on sbr why are you taking fighters? the escort rule?
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hey what is LHTR? i always thought only bombers could go on sbr . so if figs & bombers are attacking land you roll all dice attacker choses casualites. but if you send bombers on and SBR and figs to land you roll seperatly.
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Well, what I meant was that my friend sent his bombers and fighters against France and the AA gun blew away one of the planes. But I had figured that the AA gun owner had to fire first at the fighters then the bombers. And that’s what I did, but somehow my friend just took out a fighter instead of a bomber, which I had rolled for. And then we got to arguing and I went for the rules, even the Larry Harris Tournament Rule book, but somehow they were also unclear, and I “KNEW” that you rolled for fighters then bombers. but i was overruled.
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For those who say that AA just needs to go away…
I blame my near total lack of success wtih AA fire in large part for my recent loss. 2 hits over 11 TURNS of play… It left my opponent with 11 FIGs and a bomber on turn 11.
That is just insane for such a long game.
Aa is important, and essential. And using it well can (in a normal dice game) make ALL the difference between winning and losing.
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You never need to roll one die at a time, of course. You just lose the planes in the order of how far they moved, since except for that distinction, they’re identical.
This brings up another question:
So I guess we aren’t technically rolling for each plane individually, because with this method you are choosing which fighters die. For instance if there are 2 fighters with different movement points, and the enemy rolls 2 die and gets 1 hit, should you be able to choose that the fighter with less movement points dies? Or should you technically be rolling invidiaully for each fighter since they have different movement points?
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roll all planes attacking land at the same time. attacker choses casualties. roll all bombers only on SBR seperate. hits will be bombers. switch is also right AA can change a game, they are very important.
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You can do that mojo if you want to be ignoring the errata which clearly specifies that it is not the case, which is of course fine as that is common in this game.
To trihero’s question -
_Is anti-aircraft fire targeted against specific aircraft?
Yes. In practice, you can roll a handful of dice against all enemy fighters, then roll another handful against all enemy bombers. The reason for this rule is so that bombers will be forced to take hits from AA guns._
I would say that it clearly states that you can pick whichever fighter you wish. Again from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/faqs/axisrevised - which you can count as a reliable source or not.
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i disagree i’m reading the rules manual from revised. whenever a air unit enters a territory. so roll all air units at once, attacker choses casualites. SBR is only bombers so you roll that seperately
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From the LHTR Rules (Opening Fire sequence):
Antiaircraft Guns
If the defender has an antiaircraft gun present and the attacker has air units in the attack, then the antiaircraft gun fires during this step. The defender rolls one die (only one antiaircraft gun fires) for each attacking air unit. You roll all anti-fighter dice at once, then all anti-bomber dice. For each type, the air unit owner allocates hits amongst the air units that are being shot at. For every roll of 1, one attacking air unit is destroyed; its controller moves it into the casualty zone of the battle board. If there are not aircraft present, ignore this step.I’m not seeing what the issue is with LHTR. If you have 3 ftrs and 4 bombers attacking an AA gun location, roll 3 dice for the ftrs and pick which ftr you lose if any 1’s are rolled. Then roll 4 dice for the bombers and do the same.
What am I missing???
BW
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i disagree i’m reading the rules manual from revised. whenever a air unit enters a territory. so roll all air units at once, attacker choses casualites. SBR is only bombers so you roll that seperately
The FAQ is meant to be a clarification of the rules, because they cannot reprint and automatically insert it into the box. Therefore, the FAQ supersedes the rules, and LHTR if you want to go with those would also supersede the rules in the printed version of the manual.
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@Craig:
Thanks BW.
I was looking in other places in the LHTR that had references to AA Guns. I did not look at that paragraph.
This is a problem at times like this.Â
There are four different places where AA Guns are talked about.Â
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Phase 3: Combat Move, Special Combat Moves, Air Units, Antiaircraft Guns, pg. 7
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Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Combat Sequence, Step 2: Conduct Opening Fire, Antiaircraft Guns, pg. 8
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Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Special Combats, Strategic Bombing Raids, pg. 13
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Appendix I: Unit Profiles, Antiaircraft Guns, Special Abilities, Shoot Down Air Units, pg. 17
The first and last one are similar in what they say concerning AA Guns. The third is just a quick reference about the firing of AA Guns against bombers during SBRs.Â
The second is the only one that includes the statement that makes the extra clarification about how to specifically roll. It talks about the separate roll for fighters and for bombers.
Craig
In reading the LHTR rules, anyone would be best advised to consider exactly what information they want. In particular - where in the course of a turn does the situation occur that gives rise to the question, then look in the associated action section for the answer first.
If you want to know what a piece can do during combat movement, check the combat movement section first.
In the case given here, “Do you roll all air units at once, and pick and choose amongst bombers and ftrs for AA losses, or do you roll one die for each individual piece?”, go to the section “Conduct Combat”.
The unit profile section does contain valuable, accurate (as far as it goes), but not necessarily 100% complete information about what each piece can do in every situation.
The LHTR rule were written so that you could have the page open for the stage of play you are at in every part of a turn to see what you need to do at that point, and then do it with confidence that you don’t need to be checking other parts of the manual for exceptions or variances.
BW
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Ok, I conciede my opinion. I recant. I’m an AA Heritic :lol:. It must be due to the fact that I have played relitivly few games compared to some of you. For the record (and here is another can o’ worms) I don’t like SBR’s either. They don’t seem worth it to me.
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Ok, I conciede my opinion. I recant. I’m an AA Heritic :lol:. It must be due to the fact that I have played relitivly few games compared to some of you. For the record (and here is another can o’ worms) I don’t like SBR’s either. They don’t seem worth it to me.
It depends on the situation.
For example, as Japan I LIKE SBR’s in a KRF game during the earlier moves. Japan’s FIGs provide more than enough offensive airpower for the land strikes, and USA has a tendancy to pull back in the Pacific during a KGF, so that leaves my bomber either being over-kill for land battles or unused. So I use it for SBR’s on RUssia to help keep RUssia’s force count down until Japan can get there. This helps Germany a lot, and makes Japan’s job of getting to Russia easier, since Russia loses IPC’s and thus has no units to spare to send east.
THen of course there is the USA SBR campaign option against Germany…
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I think doing SBRs are ok with the bombers you start with, because they have the capability to damage the opponent’s game when normal combat might not be feasible. But I think there are just so many better ways, under LHTR, to spend your money than on bombers for SBR or even normal combat. Due to bombing limits, cost, extremely poor defense value, and the nerfed heavy bombers research, it’s difficult to make bombers work in a long term strategy. Indeed they are the fastest way for the US to make its presence felt against Germany, but probably in the long run it’s better to have a transport chain with men that can be used to capture/defend territories, since you can no longer bomb a nation’s economy more than the territory value.
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I agree Tri. I am not an advocate of the USA Bombing strat, but it does exist and is used with some frequency, so I thought I’d mention it.
I also agree on the original bomber thing… though from time to time I will add a Japan bomber to the mix, and use it for SBR’s from time to time.
Basically, USA and Japan are the only 2 nations that regularly engage in SBR. Russia has no bomber, and if they buy one, they are either stupid, or the Axis is already screwed. UK has one to start, but it has other uses that are more essential than an SBR run. Germany likewise has more important things for their bomber to do than risk itself for an SBR (in ALMOST all cases). But even for Japan, if Japan is being pressed in Asia or the Pacific, that bomber becomes an offesnive tool for combat. And for the US, that bomber again is an offensive tool once the Atlantic Convoys reach their destinations.
Basically, SBR is an option for somethign you can use your bomebr for when their is NO other pressing need for that bomber in combat.
Even then, you might want to consider NOT doing it if your bomber is essential to a future combat, since your bomber may get shot down…
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Basically, SBR is an option for somethign you can use your bomebr for when their is NO other pressing need for that bomber in combat.
Even then, you might want to consider NOT doing it if your bomber is essential to a future combat, since your bomber may get shot down…
Yeah haha sometimes I get so paranoid I don’t even SBR because I want my bomber for later normal combats.
Russia has no bomber, and if they buy one, they are either stupid, or the Axis is already screwed.
So true, just like buying Russian navy ; ( Those bombers look so cool because they’re so big but they’re never purchased :cry:
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So true, just like buying Russian navy ; ( Those bombers look so cool because they’re so big but they’re never purchased :cry:
Russia 1:
With $24 IPC’s
1 Battleship, spending $24, saving 0… -
Russia 1:
With $24 IPC’s
1 Battleship, spending $24, saving 0…LOL!!
One of my friends actually somewhat seriously considered doing this because he really really likes battleship bomardments :-P
One of my other friends purchased 2 destroyers in R2 to get rid of the German med fleet, but ended up retreating it into the Indian Ocean : P
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or you could play World at War 2005 where all these problems are solved.
A/A guns can roll up to 3 dice per combat round and may not fire more than one die at each attacking aircraft. More than one A/A gun can be used in a territory. They fire just like any other normal unit. They can also be used as Anti-tank guns and casualties.
Oh yeah, defending and attacking fighters exchange fire for one round against SBRs. Fighters accompanying an SBR have a range of 6. They also have a range of 6 if they do not participate in combat that turn. A/A guns can fire for one round during the SBR and normally in a normal attack in the same turn. SBRs can damage/destroy factories, so the stakes are higher. Factories can be repaired but if they are not, certain penalties apply. For instance, if you hit well enough, you can prevent the factory from putting out tanks, A/A guns, ships and/or aircraft. You can also bomb runways and limit the amount of defending fighters able to defend against SBRs. In short, you can actually have a real Battle of Britian. One more way World at War is superior.
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