Would the Allies win without Russia in the real war?


  • Good point, but theres more to his hatred than that!!!

    He still planned on taking the Russian steppes, that added to his lebensraum theory, once russia became communist his desire to attack it grew!

    and sorry, he wasnt just 15 it was when he was 13-35 yrs old were his prime days of what i said…


  • @marine36:

    back on topic. we would have won without russia,but it would have been much harder. what would have happened if hitler hadnt double crossed his “partner” and russia had fought with the germans?

    in 1940 the germans attacked france. France fell in weeks.
    in 1944 the germans were in full retreat on the eastern front, they had lost most of their military to the russians. Their ranks were now bieng filled with men to old for regular service in the VolkSturm and boys as young as 12 in the Hitler youth.

    The allies landed on june the 6th and outnumbered the germans at least five to one on every beach and in every concentrated effort, as well as having total domination in the sky.

    despite these alarming figures, the western allies had tremendous difficulties advancing through france and it took them several months to punch through the demoralised, outnumbered, and beaten germans and liberate north western france.

    Hitler lost more than 80% of The Wehrmacht in the Soviet Union.
    if there had been no war with russia do you really think that the allies could even withstand such might in England, much less try to land in Normandy??.


  • About the the use of nuclear weapons…

    The US did not veiw the Japanease as humans, thus it was okay, in their minds, to nuke them. But they veiwed the Germans as humans so I doubt they would have used nuclear weapons. Hitler did not use gas as a weapon during the war as he knew how evil such a weapon was. And if Hitler could see that if a weapon is to evil then it should not be used I am certain that the US would have seen this too.


  • hitler was evil, the reason he didnt use gas weapons was because he had suffered form a gas attack in ww1. nazis were not human, humans dont make lampshades out of human skin and sit back to admire it, we viewed the germans as humans because we had not yet liberated any death camps.

  • Moderator

    @marine36:

    hitler was evil, the reason he didnt use gas weapons was because he had suffered form a gas attack in ww1. nazis were not human, humans dont make lampshades out of human skin and sit back to admire it, we viewed the germans as humans because we had not yet liberated any death camps.

    THe Germans were human the Nazis were not… some Germans perished in the Gas Chambers and Death Camps…

    GG


  • the germans of today are normal people, but i cant help but disgusted at the fact that their forefathers were sick murderers.

    glad im not a german :D ^^


  • Yup, your forefathers murdered native americans and black slaves. Seems like that is less sick.

  • Moderator

    @F_alk:

    Yup, your forefathers murdered native americans and black slaves. Seems like that is less sick.

    The point is they had a reason to do it(although it was a lame reason)…THe Nazis didn’t

    For our Motherland, That did not quite match up to a good argument… what if you are a German descendant? :-? Guess that means you got killer blood in you…? And the country of your name (Russia) inh soviet times killed more then the NAzis…so what would it matter if you were russian?

    GG


  • @Guerrilla:

    @F_alk:

    Yup, your forefathers murdered native americans and black slaves. Seems like that is less sick.

    The point is they had a reason to do it(although it was a lame reason)…THe Nazis didn’t

    For our Motherland, That did not quite match up to a good argument… what if you are a German descendant? :-? Guess that means you got killer blood in you…? And the country of your name (Russia) inh soviet times killed more then the NAzis…so what would it matter if you were russian?

    GG

    1. this is more “discussion forum” type stuff
    2. none of this particular post means anything to me (i.e. it is kind of non-sensical. The Americans had reasons for murdering blacks and natives, but the Nazis did not have reasons for also murdering people? This is stupidity wrapped around racism. There is an unfortunate history in the blood of every person in this world. Currently Germany is one of the more peaceful countries in the world, with a heck-of-a conscience when it comes to international relationships and actions (relative to many others).

  • murder blacks?

  • Moderator

    @cystic:

    @Guerrilla:

    @F_alk:

    Yup, your forefathers murdered native americans and black slaves. Seems like that is less sick.

    The point is they had a reason to do it(although it was a lame reason)…THe Nazis didn’t

    For our Motherland, That did not quite match up to a good argument… what if you are a German descendant? :-? Guess that means you got killer blood in you…? And the country of your name (Russia) inh soviet times killed more then the NAzis…so what would it matter if you were russian?

    GG

    1. this is more “discussion forum” type stuff
    2. none of this particular post means anything to me (i.e. it is kind of non-sensical. The Americans had reasons for murdering blacks and natives, but the Nazis did not have reasons for also murdering people? This is stupidity wrapped around racism. There is an unfortunate history in the blood of every person in this world. Currently Germany is one of the more peaceful countries in the world, with a heck-of-a conscience when it comes to international relationships and actions (relative to many others).

    I didn’t say it was right… IT was dead wrong… US was just as bad… should ahve said that outright…

    GG


  • @F_alk:

    Yup, your forefathers murdered native americans and black slaves. Seems like that is less sick.

    as my name clearly suggests, im russian so i dont know wtf you are talking about ( native americans?)

    as to the second, more sensical comment made by guerrila guy:

    the “killing” that you speak of was done by The N.K.V.D, not “the russian people”, and i should add that the statistics about this killing are greatly greatly exagerated in west (particularly in the usa)

    heres a good paper on the topic: http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=75http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=75

    Soviet Union : a country whose secret police sent people to hard labor centers for long periods of time, many of them innocent of any crime.

    Nazi Germany: a Fascist, Rascist state, who’s ideology called for brutal repression and ensavment of all peoples deemed inferior “Untermenschen” (Slavs, jews, roma, gypsies) and implemented Mobile killing squads (EinsatzGruppen) to commit mass murder in occupied eastern europe directed at jews, Russian officers and intellectuals. ( these units were filled not only by Gestapo and SS, but by commen wehrmact soldiers, picked out from their divisions)

    The germans policy towards Soviet Prisoners of war was inhuman, and not fit even for farm cattle. Barbaric treatment of all “Untermenchen” was taught and encouraged.

    The Third reich is the only Modern state to have completly devoted its self to the systematic extermination of whole races and ethnic groups.


  • every one is getting off topic here.


  • I agree with CC here…. and apologize for furthering the “off-topic-ness”.


  • @ForOurMotherland:

    the germans of today are normal people, but i cant help but disgusted at the fact that their forefathers were sick murderers.

    glad im not a german :D ^^

    This is bull. Most germans didn’t have any choice for what happened, this is a rather ignorant comment! :roll:


  • WOOT 100 posts for this thread! This thread is soooooo old! i barely go on this site anymore then i wanted to check this month and found that my thread was still up! how old is this thing anyways?


  • If Germany didnt declare war against russia in summer-41, the war would have ended after moths months. Japan would not bomb pearl, germany and Britain would eventually sign a truce, or brittain would have been forces to surrender.

    But Germany wanted war against russia nomather what, Hitler hated communism as much as the jews.
    So , if we say Russia didnt exist, USa wouldnt get involved in the war, and britain would loose against ger and italy.
    End of story

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Had Germany waited to defeat Britian before declaring on Russia, eithe rRussia would have declared on him (which I believe Stalin had planned to do) or he would have declared afterwards.

    I don’t think Germany’s decision about Russia had any bearing on Japan’s decision on Pearl Harbor.


  • if you look at the russian front most of the major defeats on Germany were inflicted in the east…

    battle of moscow, stalingrad, kursk…

    People say that USSR would have declared war on germany had Hitler not backstabbed first, but you have to remember that the USSR wasnt exactly best pals with the US and UK…after all during the russian civil war the US and UK sent troops to fight against the bolsheviks.

    also the reason that the Battle of Britain was one was because of germany withdrawing air power from France to the east (balkans and Russia)…had this not happened i think Britain would have been knocked out around early 1942, or maybe earlier then that.

    with Britain gone it would be very hard for the US to attack trans-atlantic against a well defended europe.

    also it was the Germans who declared war on the USA after pearl harbour not the other way round. USA might never have come into the european war.

    oh btw just reading other posts on ‘could germany have broken USSR’ i think they could have easily…the invasion was meant to be in may but it was put back due to invasion of balkans…this meant that the german army was stopped before moscow (20miles) by the perma-frost…which had they invaded on time would not have been there. Germany made terible blunders…the fact that they went for a set-piece battle at stalingrad was dumb, as was the 1942 offensive on causasus oil fields in general. At kursk yet again due to massive delays to the attack the russians were able to prepare many defenses to stop it…which is what happened.

    i think the soviet victory was more thanks to German blunders between summer 1942 and summer 1943.


  • The Soviet Union destroyed over 500 German divisions. All the other allies combined destroyed about 170.

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