Here’s some more info on this: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/headline-story/16223/james-moore-eternal-war-a-decade-of-civilization/
The Most Devastating Event to Nazi Germany
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Exactly Yanny, this destroyed plans for operation sea lion!
And F_alk, I didn’t make the name, i saw it in a history book-
“Night of Broken Glass”
Kristall doesn’t mean crystal! :roll: -
@F_alk:
Mind to change the name Kristallnacht to pogrom ?
It was more than crystal that was destroyed in that night.
As well, seeing this as single event doesn’t make much. Why don’t you exchange that point by the whole genocides done by the germans? that would then “have a chance” of getting voted for.I agree with this. Kristallnacht was a terrible (and bizaare) occurrance, but surely does not rank as the most “devestating thing to happen to a country”.
Pogram is prolly an appropriate way to look at the whole Kristallnacht . . . millieu, i suppose. -
All right, time for a little logic:
Battle of El Alamein, Balkans: Due to alliance with Italy.
Krisstalnacht, Barbarossa: Due to Hitler.
Battle of Britain: Failed due to Goring.
Warsaw Ghetto: Can’t recall exact details.
So we can logically conclude from the list given that most devastating to Germany in WWII were either Hitler or the Rome-Berlin Axis, which of course was encouraged by Hitler, so therefore the true worst thing to happen to Germany was Hitler.
I know it’s not very good logic. :wink:
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@Grigoriy:
Warsaw Ghetto: Can’t recall exact details.
This should be as “due to Hitler” then as well, as it was another “plant” that grew out of the “seed” of the genocide.
And F_alk, I didn’t make the name, i saw it in a history book-
“Night of Broken Glass”
Kristall doesn’t mean crystal! :roll:What should i say…
why not LEO it?
why not believe the native german speaker?
why put in a “:roll:” before you know who you argue with ;) ? -
@F_alk:
And F_alk, I didn’t make the name, i saw it in a history book-
“Night of Broken Glass”
Kristall doesn’t mean crystal! :roll:What should i say…
why not LEO it?
why not believe the native german speaker?
why put in a “:roll:” before you know who you argue with ;) ?lmao
i knew this, but i wanted to see how F_alk would respond (i am not a native German speaker, but i know something about the holocaust . . . ). -
i wish Mussolini had been an option, that bloated Italian caused him problems in Greece and cost him Africa. However with the list i went for Barborossa, Leningrad, Stalingrad and MOsocow where going to happen as a result of this so are connected……
Battle of Britian was pretty bad also -
i wish Mussolini had been an option, that bloated Italian caused him problems in Greece and cost him Africa.
:evil: :evil: :evil:
I’m italian! I find that comment very insulting! Mussolini didn’t mess hitler up that much!!! Hitler was the one that initiated the treaty with him! Also, he wasn’t really “bloated” He wore a form of suit that made him appear bigger! :x -
I’m italian! I find that comment very insulting! Mussolini didn’t mess hitler up that much!!! Hitler was the one that initiated the treaty with him! Also, he wasn’t really “bloated” He wore a form of suit that made him appear bigger! :x
Well let’s see…we already know that two of the things on your list were caused by Italy, so if Hitler hadn’t made the treaty, then that would have been a plus for Hitler, wouldn’t it? He would then not have had to commit necessary divisions to Africa and the Balkans-well he probably would have attacked the Balkans anyway, as they were there, but Germany would have been able to choose their battles instead of bailing out their Italian “allies.”
Oh, and what did Italy ever do for Germany? It isn’t a very good alliance when you have to do all the work now, is it?
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Most devasting event on Nazi Germany how about Pearl Harbor? Had Japan not gone to war with America Germany would still have lost the Russian war but may have been able to gain seperate treaties for each Ally.
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how about
“declaring war on America”.
until then, they had few problems with the Americans, and could well have kept most of their focus on the east and Britain. An A&A game where the US stays out of the European theater would not be a game . . . . -
Mussolini didn’t mess hitler up that much
So tieing down very usefull infantry and panzer divisions wasn’t that big of a deal? Hitler should have stopped all communication with Mussolini after Italy’s big “victory” in Ethopia.
It still amazes me how a Italian force of over 500,000 men could not manage to capture the British held Africa against a force a fraction of their own.
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It still amazes me how a Italian force of over 500,000 men could not manage to capture the British held Africa against a force a fraction of their own.
The Italian army was not as highly mechanized as the British, probably also not as well trained.
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Italy’s main deal with germany was to give economic support to germany, in return germany had to protect them!
The italians thought they were stronger than they were! -
Even if the Germans hadn’t declared war on Germany the US would’ve once Japan had attacked Pearl Harbor. Remember, that the US and Germany were involved in an unofficial war on the high seas throughout much of 1941.
North Africa just wasn’t a decisive theater in the war, and I’m puzzled as to why so many people think it was. The deciding factor in WWII was the military might the two superpowers Russia and the US were able to flex against the Axis powers. This being said without US involvement Germany could have been strong enough to force the Soviets to ultimately accept a separate peace despite Russian victory, and this could easily have representated a restoration of the 1914 borders, and the undoing of what the treaty of versailles achieved.
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Mussolini boasted his forces would destroy the British fleet and capture Africa with his 8 million bayonets. Actually Mussolini relied on HItler for resources (in particualr coal) and had set HItler huge quantities of materials which he required before he would be able to join in the war (hence Mussolini not joining in till he thought that the war was as good as won). This isnt particularly insulting to the Italians, they were a country which was not ready for war but which had been forced in by their leader.
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When you have a strong ally, you can do that!
And F_alk,
Vergebung mein, fur ichsein mude! :-?
"Forgive me, For i was tired!It was a pretty long day for me that day!
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When you have a strong ally, you can do that!
And F_alk,
Vergebung mein, fur ichsein mude! :-?
"Forgive me, For i was tired!It was a pretty long day for me that day!
Hope i wrote that right! :-? -
i’ve gotta go with the Battle of Britain here. Hitler had his sights right to start with but then changed them at a critical moment. the Luftwaffe had crippled the RAF near to the point of defeat, but then Hitler ordered the transitioning of his attacks to civilian targets far from the RAF airfields. Thus giveing the RAF much needed time to recuperate and retake the skies. by doing this, Hitler allowed massive Air losses to the British and gave them ample time to construct defenses against the impending Sealion.
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And yet I would argue SeaLion would never have succeeded anyway. If you compare D-Day to SeaLion you can see the level of commitment and support needed for such a large amphib operation to succeed. Of course Germany did not have this.
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And yet I would argue SeaLion would never have succeeded anyway. If you compare D-Day to SeaLion you can see the level of commitment and support needed for such a large amphib operation to succeed. Of course Germany did not have this.
Yes, I would totally agree with you here. Whether you can then infer that the Germans were never serious about Sealion as a result is another matter but I would agree that the level of ‘amateurism’ compared to Allied preparations for D-Day indicate a collossal defeat waiting on the other side of the Channel.
As for North Africa being a ‘sideshow’ Agent Smith……I’m not so sure. In Axis and Allies yes it can be ignored because it is pretty much irrelevant. But in the war…as someone said most of the Italian army was committed to Africa and its large Navy was of course Med based thus seriously challenging Britains’ links with India. Whatever your opinion as to italian quality their destruction helped pull Italy out of the war thus obliging German forces to defend against another front. (Italian engineers were also well ahead of others in jet-engine research. Another good reason to knock Italy out of the war. Which of course was begun through africa.)
It also allowed Torch to take place (thus giving a good dress rehearsal for D-Day and showing how well the Allies could co-operate in a combined arms op.) It also checked German ambitions in Iraq and Syria which thus checking an attempt to widen the war.
It was also, along with strategic bombing, the only place the British could challenge the axis on the ground until the war became global with Barbarossa and Pearl Harbor.
North Africa irrelevant? Come off it!
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