@the_good_captain It is only during the pre-emptive artillery strike that tanks don’t cancel hits. Per the following paragraph, the land combat is conducted normally, except for battleship bombardment.
What exactly are tanks good for?
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@Imperious:
They negate hits on your units
Thats it - but I ran the numbers through a lil simulation - 2 infantry are better even if one is lost immediately…
Tanks actually pay for themselves after two rounds, from round 3 on, an initial purchase of 1 tank is better than an initial purchase of 2 infantry and the advantage increases each subsequent round. Now this only applies if you are on the offense, if your capital is being threatened, go with the infantry since the tank doesn’t absorb a hit on defense.
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I view them as front line reinforcements every round that you attack with them.
If you attack with 6 armor, and don’t lose them, next round your move your new units in, and low and behold, there are 6 armor still there, permitting another round of attack….again if you don’t lose them, you have effectively gained 12 units on the front line.
If you buy tanks, and then don’t do attacks, you are wasting money. Especially given there terrible defense when compared to 2 defending infantry.
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I think the tanks are an investment - not good when you buy them , but paying off later - if there IS a later ;) - I will have to try them some day and watch how long they last - if their army is destoyed within a 1-2 turns they are nor worth it, from turn three they start to pay - Not sure if they also reduce the number of infantry you need - as absorbing hits you need less infantry to “protect” arty and planes from becoming casualties.
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I think you touched on it right there. Tanks are an investment, but they also need to be used in the right situation. I foresee them being best used on the western front where you have large stacks of infantry with both sides getting constant reinforcements. Also, the tank to infantry ratio during a battle should be pretty low since they don’t defend well, you are inviting a counterattack. The tank is a complimentary unit, not a primary unit.
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I thought a tank can soak up 1 infantry hit- if there are 3 tanks and 1 infantry, it only soaks up 1 hit since there is 1 infantry?
I had to go look this up too. From page 19 of the rulebook:
Step 4. Defending Units Fire
The defender, following the same basic system as the attacker, rolls all his or her dice and places any dice that scored a hit on your side of the battle board.
However, attacking (but not defending) tanks have a special ability to absorb hits. You, as the attacker, reduce the number of hits scored against you by the number of tanks you have in the battle (to a minimum of zero). For each tank you have, you remove one die that scored a hit from your side of the battle board.
Each tank cancels one hit. Since the tank cancels a hit before it is applied, it doesn’t matter where the now cancelled hit would have been applied. So your 3 tank, 1 infantry force would cancel 3 hits. If your opponent rolled 2 hits, both would be cancelled.
It’s all this 2 inf vs. 1 tank talk that’s messing with our minds. :-)
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Yeah, they soak up a hit period, but if you are going around with one infantry and a bunch of tanks, you will get destroyed on the counterattack.
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The absorbing hits is the only good thing i think, if it cost 4 instead of 6, then it would be more worth it. or at least make it a 3/1 or 3/2 by default.
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The absorbing hits is the only good thing i think, if it cost 4 instead of 6, then it would be more worth it. or at least make it a 3/1 or 3/2 by default.
As a unit that basically generates a 3 IPC unit each turn on the front lines, 6 IPCs is a bargain in my opinion.
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The absorbing hits is the only good thing i think, if it cost 4 instead of 6, then it would be more worth it. or at least make it a 3/1 or 3/2 by default.
Still suprices me that 22,5% dont get it.
Since it absorbs 6dice eyes and attack with 2 and combat last one turn its equal attack of a heavybomber revised style (8dice eyes)
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Well, since you can’t buy tanks until round 4, and since they only move 1 space/turn… they may not reach the front until turn 6/7 (Germany) or turn 5/6 (France, England, Austria).
How many battles will they be in and thus ‘soak’ a hit if the game typically lasts 10 rounds (just made that number up- I suppose it could be longer, but that is a long game in and of itself)??
I think having Air supremacy is more important than having tanks at that stage of the game (and they move 2 spaces/turn)- controlling the skies make you front line units more effective at attack.
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What if, once you reached a threshold number of tanks on attack (say 3) you can make combat last an extra round. Or for every 3 tanks on attack you can make it last an extra round each. This would symbolize the tanks ability to make a breakthrough when amassed.
Awesome idea. This would make them absolutely essential for breaking through those late game stacks.
How about…
If you get more than 3 hits with tanks while attacking, you may choose to make combat last an extra round. -
The absorbing hits is the only good thing i think, if it cost 4 instead of 6, then it would be more worth it. or at least make it a 3/1 or 3/2 by default.
Still suprices me that 22,5% dont get it.
Since it absorbs 6dice eyes and attack with 2 and combat last one turn its equal attack of a heavybomber revised style (8dice eyes)
can u clarify this statement?
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A absorbed hit takes away 6defence from the defender (neutralize two infs defence). Value of inf and art attacking is 6 (or 7), one attacking tank is 8 (or 9)
The value of protecting your unit from certain death is equivalent to sending one enemy unit into certain death. (if combat lasts only one round)
Picture the tank as a mobile factory producing infantery and arillery on the front line free of charge, and still attacks and defends.
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I found out what tanks are good for:
When you have a stack that will do some attacking but won’t get attacked back.Lets say Germany is marching into France with 20 inf, and 20 art. France has 35 infantry.
That is where you want tanks. Because after you contest the territory with 35 inf, on their turn they won’t dare roll to attack. Therefore your tanks defending at 1 is irrelevant.Tanks are to break an all infantry defensive stalemate.
If an opponent starts buying all infantry expecting only to defend but not attack, they are asking to get attacked by tanks.I guess tanks exist so defender nations still have to buy arty and not all infantry.
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I found out what tanks are good for:
When you have a stack that will do some attacking but won’t get attacked back.Lets say Germany is marching into France with 20 inf, and 20 art. France has 35 infantry.
That is where you want tanks. Because after you contest the territory with 35 inf, on their turn they won’t dare roll to attack. Therefore your tanks defending at 1 is irrelevant.Tanks are to break an all infantry defensive stalemate.
If an opponent starts buying all infantry expecting only to defend but not attack, they are asking to get attacked by tanks.I guess tanks exist so defender nations still have to buy arty and not all infantry.
I kinda think defenders would want to buy artillery anyways, since if they get air supremacy (which is much easier on defense to do), they get huge arty rolls.
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The change I was considering was each tank reducing 1 inf to a defense of 1. After that, if still not used, I would reduce cost by 1.
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I think if your plan is to just hold the line 30 ipcs for 10 infantry is better than say: 4 infantry, 3 artillery and a fighter.
30/6 on defense vs 26/6 on defense
All infantry is better than defensive air superiority I feel.
But all infantry can’t attack. -
I was mainly with France in mind, where other powers’ fighters can give them air supremacy on defense.
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Inf is ALWAYS better at defending than art, even with air.
3 defence for 3IPC > 4 defence for IPC
-> more unitsIf you need transports to get you units to the front it may be a little bit different…
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That’s not strictly true (outside of LL), especially since combat last only 1 round per turn.
3 artillery cannot do 4 hits in 1 round, sure, but they end up with 0 hits less often than 4 inf would, and so on down the line.
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