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Germany to Africa, how?

World War II History

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molinar13
last edited by

How did the desert fox originally get to North Africa? Did Germany use Italian transports, or did they have a Naval Base in Southern France?

P.S. I get better answers here than a darn search engine, so thanks again in advance :-)
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ABWorsham4
last edited by

@molinar13:

How did the desert fox originally get to North Africa? Did Germany use Italian transports, or did they have a Naval Base in Southern France?

P.S. I get better answers here than a darn search engine, so thanks again in advance :-)

Rommel flew to North Africa.
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221B Baker Street
last edited by

The Germans called this Operation Sonnenblume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sonnenblume

Rommel did arrive by airplane, but most of the people and equipment arrived by ship.
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legion3
last edited by

Most of the transports and escort ships used to ferry men and supplies were Italian ships or in some cases captured French and Greek freighters.

the German navy had very little surface forces in the Med.
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Did Chile declare war on Germany?

World War II History
• • • JustLuthor

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I started by checking my own Global 1940 map analysis document…

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/26161/global-1940-2nd-edition-map-analysis/33?page=2&lang=en-GB

…and the entry for Chile says “Chile, a country with close trading ties with Germany, initially chose to remain neutral (in contrast with many South American countries which, although technically neutral, tilted slightly towards the Allied side early in the war). Chile only started to distance itself from the Axis powers in 1943, when it broke diplomatic relations with them.”

According to this page…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II

the “Declaration by United Nations”, originally signed by 26 nations in January 1942, was signed by Chile in early 1945. Chile was also one of the original 51 signatories of the 1945 Charter of the United Nations, and Chile also apparently declared war on Japan in April 1945. This page…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarations_of_war_during_World_War_II

…similarly notes the same declaration of war against Japan and similarly mentions none against Germany.

All in all, it sounds as if Chile was one of the countries (there were several, notably in Latin America) which spent much of WWII playing their cards close to their vest, and which only committeed themselves to the Allied bandwagon once it was clear that a) the war was nearly over and b) the Allies were going to win. Based on the other entries in my map analysis document, it looks as if, basically, the Latin American countries whose real inclination was to be pro-Axis spent the war pretending they were neutral; the Latin American countries whose real inclination was to be neutral spent the war pretending they were pro-Allied; and the Latin American / Caribbean countries whose inclination was to be pro-Allied jumped onto the Allied bandwagon right after Pearl Harbor. The reason for all of these positions (nuanced or overt) isn’t hard to guess: they were all in the western hemisphere, i.e. in the backyard of the United States, so they had to be careful about the public stance they took, even in those countries with right-wing governements and/or significantly large numbers of residents of German ancestry.
K

What if? Full Powered Africa Corps?

World War II History
• • • Karl7

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@Karl7:

Why wouldn’t that have worked? How big was the Brit garrison? I am assuming no more than a couple thousand?

Infantry
In late 1939 the pre-war garrison was reinforced up to an infantry division (commanded by Major General Sir Sanford John Palairet Scobell).[13] The original infantry garrison, plus the three brigades that reinforced the island’s regular British Army were title 1, 2, 3, and 4 Brigades; but were subsequently renumbered in 1943 as follows:[14]

231 Infantry Brigade – assigned to the Southern Sector under Brig L H Cox. HQ Southern Infantry Brigade at Luqa. Its infantry battalions were:
2nd Battalion The Devonshire Regiment
1st Battalion The Hampshire Regiment
1st Battalion The Dorsetshire Regiment
2nd Battalion The King’s Own Malta Regiment
3rd Battalion The King’s Own Malta Regiment
232 Infantry Brigade – assigned to the Northern Sector under Brig W H Oxley. HQ Northern Infantry Brigade at Melita Hotel Attard next to San Anton Gardens. Its infantry battalions were:
2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Fusiliers
8th Battalion, King’s Own Royal Regiment (Lancaster)
8th Battalion, Manchester Regiment[15]
233 Infantry Brigade – formed on 30 July 1941; assigned to the Central Sector under Brig I De La Bere. Its infantry battalions were:
11th Battalion The Lancashire Fusiliers
2nd Battalion The Queen’s Own Royal West Kent Regiment[16]
10th Battalion The King’s Own Malta Regiment
234 Infantry Brigade – assigned to the Western sector under Brig F Brittorous. Its infantry battalions were:
4th Battalion The Royal East Kent Regiment (The Buffs)
1st Battalion The Durham Light Infantry
1st Battalion The Cheshire Regiment

Malta Forces

16th Fortress Company
24th Fortress Company
173rd Tunnel Company
2 Works Company
127th Bomb Disposal Section
128th Bomb Disposal Section
Malta Command Signals, Royal Signals
8 Special Wireless Squadron
Royal Army Medical Corps
39 General Hospital RAMC
45 General Hospital RAMC
90 General Hospital RAMC
15 Field Ambulance RAMC
161 Field Ambulance RAMC
69 Field Security Section Intelligence Corps
226 Provost Company Royal Military Police
Royal Army Service Corps[23]
32 Company RASC (MT)
Malta Supply Depot RASC
Water Transport Company RASC
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How did Afrika Korp get to Africa?

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• • • Caesar-Seriona

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That’s because each nation during WWII learned different lessons during that war. USSR build their tanks to be cheap because they know they will lose equipment and men. They accept that losing soldiers is going to happen so they tend to use numbers to gain the edge, however they haven’t needed to do this since WWII. The last tried this in Afgan and it didn’t work so well.

The US can’t take loses for $hit, so we try to destroy you from the air, far way, as fast as possible and units that are designed to be in your face while fighting are armored up.
I

Plans for preemtive attack on Germany 1941…

World War II History
• • • Imperious Leader

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Oh yeah, I bet you can find tons of Axis equipment with Allied origins. I remember reading a book talking about Sea Lion and the Germans put together what very little landing craft they had and it turned out these craft in origin were all US and British that was sold prior to WWI.
K

Could Germany have won WWII?

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• • • KurtGodel7

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If Russia had attacked an entrenched Nazi Europe, the social optics alone would change the outcome in my opinion.

Suddenly the reds are the big fear, and the Nazi’s would probably garner more support. As for the Russia people, they would blame their leadership, and revolution would be in the air, as opposed to the desire to kill the “invader”
O

How could Germany have won the war?

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• • • Omega1759

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@Zooey72:

the topic went in a weird direction, toÂ bring it back I would like to see someone argue the point I made with how Germany could have won the war.

If in either sept 1939, or june 1941 the Sturmgwher were made standard issue to every German soldier how could any army have opposed them?Â I think Dunkirk would not have succeeded in 40 and England would have no army, and in 41 Russia would have fallen before winter.Â Even if it didn’t fall I am sure Moscow would have fallen, and the following spring offensive would have ended the war in the East.

The difference between this and other ‘miracle weapons’ is that an assault weapon is practical.Â Jets and really big tanks take up too many resources even if they had been produced earlier or in greater numbers.Â Ammunition would have been a factor, but that would have been it.

Imagine it, an army equipped with assault rifles opposed by armies who are equipped with what is basicaly now a hunting rifle.

Fortunately for the world Hitler didn’t like the concept until it was too late.Â

I found out, that it may have been allready implemented to German Soldiers way earlier, like 1942 as the Mkb-42.
It happend for tests that those Mkb`s 42 were sometimes dropped off for encircled infantry groups in russia to test run it. (weird)
but actually came to positive results of the Mkb-42 aka StGW '44.
C

East Africa

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• • • Croesus

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?

Still pretty decisive. Imagine if it had lasted 10 days instead of 1. :-o
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Germany first

World War II History
• • • balungaloaf

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@KurtGodel7:

@Imperious:

But short of that I think they could have won if Japan even made the gesture of attacking Russia.

The forces in the ‘far east’ didn’t cause Hitler to lose, Hitlers decision to attack Stalingrad and how he did it destroyed his chances in 1942.

In 1941 The winter caused Hitler to lose because he didn’t prepare for it and underestimated the Soviet army. Those forces were just icing on the cake used for the foiled counteroffensive, AFTER the Germans failed to take Moscow. The battles just before Moscow at Vyzma are the ones that cost the Germans too much time, so they didn’t get to Moscow in force after fighting 5 Soviet Armies.

“Contrary to German expectations, the encircled Soviet forces did not surrender easily. Instead, the fighting was fierce and desperate, and the Wehrmacht had to employ 28 divisions to eliminate the surrounded Soviet armies, using forces that were needed to support the offensive towards Moscow. The remnants of the Soviet Western and Reserve Fronts were able to retreat and consolidate their lines around Mozhaisk.[22] Moreover, the surrounded Soviet forces were not completely destroyed, as some of the encircled troops escaped in groups ranging in size from platoons to full rifle divisions.[23] Soviet resistance near Vyazma also provided time for the Soviet high command to quickly bring some reinforcements to the four armies defending the Moscow direction (namely, the 5th, 16th, 43rd and 49th), and to transport three rifle and two tank divisions from the Far East.”

I hardly think “three rifle and two tank divisions from the Far East” were the cause of the German failure. The weather and Hitlers unprepared logistics past a campaign of over 4 month duration were catastrophic.

If Japan attacked Russia it would have done nothing except expose yet another front to them and cause a 3 front war for Japan. The balance of the Soviet forces on the border were more than enough to wipe out the japanese Kwangtung army as they did in 1939.

Japan would gain nothing but another defeat, and tie up units that were used after Dec 41 in a protracted battle. Declaring war and doing nothing was not an option either. Stalin would go on the defensive if he was engaged with Germany. If Japan didn’t get her feet wet, the ploy would fail and 5 divisions still head toward Moscow. If they committed, it would have hastened japanese defeat in Asia. Stalin had more than enough forces for both once Moscow was protected.

You are obviously very familiar with this period of history. I think that the forces from the east to which the earlier poster was referring may have been the 100 divisions the Soviets shipped west during the winter of '41 - '42. After the Japanese attacked Britain and the U.S., Stalin knew they would have little attention to spare for a war against the Soviets.

I agree, however, that Stalin was probably guilty of being overly cautious on his eastern front, and that he could have safely sent large numbers of divisions westward against Germany regardless of what Japan did.

1905 may have played a role in Stalins units in the East.

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