Rules Question - Subs and Sneak attack


  • I am new to the forum and think it’s great that there are so many people who enjoy these games as much as I do.  I have been a part of the Axis and Allies world of games for many years, but am somewhat new to Pacific.  My friend and I play it almost every Saturday evening to continue to improve our skills.

    My question is regarding a debate my friend and I have about an unclear passage in the rules regarding subs . . . I know that when the subs do their “first strike” sneak attack, they cannot attack again in that cycle of combat, since they have already attacked.  But, can they still continue to attack in the next cycle of combat?  (i.e. the sub makes its sneak attack, and then the attacker attacks, defender defends, casualties are cleared, and then the attacker continues the attack . . . can the sub then attack with its compatriots in that salvo?  Or does it stay subdued for the remainder of the entire combat situation?)

    While I’m asking a question, I’ll ask one other that we have been trying to figure out . . . if during a combat situation where the defender has multiple transports, if the defender makes the mistake of forgetting to use the transports as casualties (because they’re all loaded down for an amphibious assault), after all other fighting naval units are destroyed, does this mean that the transports are all destroyed?  That is what it seems from the rules, but then again, it seems odd if they are not technically part of the fight (even though, in a way, they are).

    I would welcome anyone’s take on these issues and look forward to hearing your consensus.  I enjoy reading everyone’s posts and different strategies.  I hope to use them to improve my game at tomorrow’s game.  I apologize if the questions are a bit amateur, but I just wanted to get some clarification.


  • Heya,

    I’ll try my hand at this I think.

    First, attacking subs get their “first strike” in every round of combat (unless a Destroyer is defending).  They would be pretty crap if they could only fire once.

    Second, don’t forget that transports are not defenseless.  They defend on a roll of one.  It’s only when attacking that transports don’t fire.

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    @meteu204:

    My question is regarding a debate my friend and I have about an unclear passage in the rules regarding subs . . . I know that when the subs do their “first strike” sneak attack, they cannot attack again in that cycle of combat, since they have already attacked.  But, can they still continue to attack in the next cycle of combat?  (i.e. the sub makes its sneak attack, and then the attacker attacks, defender defends, casualties are cleared, and then the attacker continues the attack . . . can the sub then attack with its compatriots in that salvo?  Or does it stay subdued for the remainder of the entire combat situation?)

    In the Pacific rules subs get the sneak attack- the chance to sink a vessel without having to suffer return fire from it (barring destroyers being present of course.) Unlike in Revised this sneak attack does not happen every round as “opening fire.” Subs are free to participate in the next rounds of battle and do so as any other naval vessel.

    @meteu204:

    While I’m asking a question, I’ll ask one other that we have been trying to figure out . . . if during a combat situation where the defender has multiple transports, if the defender makes the mistake of forgetting to use the transports as casualties (because they’re all loaded down for an amphibious assault), after all other fighting naval units are destroyed, does this mean that the transports are all destroyed?  That is what it seems from the rules, but then again, it seems odd if they are not technically part of the fight (even though, in a way, they are).

    Your defending transports would likely be sunk in such a situation as they would only defend on 1’s against presumably stronger naval vessels.

    If your loaded transports are in an attacking Naval force and all of your escort vessels are sunk your transports would of course be sunk– If they stick around instead of retreating. The ships are free to retreat from the battle. The land troops are not free to retreat once they’ve hit the beach.


  • Actually, in AAPacific, subs get a sneak attack in every round of combat where there is not a defending destroyer present.

    Transports participate in all naval battles.  When they are part of the attacking force, they do not have an attack factor and cannot “hit” but can be taken as casualties.  They do not have to fight to the death.  At the end of any round of combat and attackers that survive can retreat to one sea zone from which any one of the attacking units entered the battle.

    SS

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    @saburo:

    Actually, in AAPacific, subs get a sneak attack in every round of combat where there is not a defending destroyer present.

    :oops: Sorry. Is that both attacking and defending subs? basically just like Revised?


  • Only attacking subs get the first strike ability. (p.33 of the rulebook)


  • That’s right.  AAPacific is not like Revised.  Only the attacking subs get the first strike capability and only if the defending force does not include a Destroyer.

    SS

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    But sorta like Revised in that they get it every round they are on the Battle Board?  😐


  • the 1st strike ability apply to all attacking subs and to all attacking rounds it has……
    The word 1st strike ability simply meant that they fire their shots first and the sneak attack thingy only applies when there is no destryoer present

    I am from Hong Kong

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    I generally have a hard time keeping all of the sub rules straight between the 4 games that use them :x which I find frustrating. If Guadalcanal is going to have subs I’m in big trouble.

    Sometimes I have to tap my head with the heel of my hand to shake the correct rule out.  :roll:

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