Brainstorming for the Central Powers


  • '10

    Played one game, dunno when I’ll get to play another.  It looks rough for the CP, but we’re gonna play OOB a few times before we start playtesting new rules and/or setups.  Having said that, I’m thinking about ideas for different, less conventional, approaches.  Just kinda thought-experiments here–love to get feedback or hear any other theories.

    The first thought that occurs to me is the strength of tanks come round four (see the “CP Wins First Game” thread).  What do people think about saving money, like round-three income, to buy a double-stack of tanks asap?  It would probably mean ceding a territory or two as either Germany or AH falls back for a round, but by planning for it early, it’s possible the effects could be mitigated.

    A more wild strategy would be to focus primarily on Britain/India, with Germany buying boats early to threaten Scotland while the Ottomans go all-in to close out India, while A-H plays defense on versus the other Allies.  I don’t know if this is at all possible, but with the unlimited India builds in OOB, it seems at least worth thinking about.  Seems like the only way the Ottomans even have a chance is if the Brits are forced to spend less money there and buy at home instead.  Is it possible to hold off France long enough for the Ottomans to clean up the corner of the board and turn around?



  • I have posted various ideas in other threads.  I want to try moving the Austrian fleet into the Italian sea zone to see how bad the allies want to activate Albania.  May help pull the French warships deeper into the Med and away from the British Isles.


  • '10

    Talking about attacking first round with the Austrians?  Hmm, might could help, but it’s an awful dicey gamble.  In conjunction with the Germans going naval, though, a win there would apply more naval pressure to the Entente.  I could maybe see that, and since the Austrians go first, the CP could use the outcome of that fight as a go/no-go signal for such a strat.

    Whatcha think about saving money for extra tanks round 4?



  • Well no, don’t attack, just move the fleet into the Italian sea zone.  You only have to roll for mines.



  • I don’t understand, what’s the advantage to having the AH fleet in the Med, but not attacking with it?



  • @Aristokles:

    I don’t understand, what’s the advantage to having the AH fleet in the Med, but not attacking with it?

    Really. France will attack the Austrians on her turn, and the Italians will finish them off on theirs. They can absorb the hits on their BBs, repairing them the next turn. Austria sacrifices her fleet for no reason whatsoever.

    Kim



  • Well the only thing that will maybe prevent the death of the AH fleet rd 1 is the mines along with an AH1 sub purchase (and even then the allies may still attack it)
    Moving the AH fleet out away from the mines and away from new purchase is a gift to the allies IMO
    What a stupid thing to do
    Not to mention that allied battleships that get damaged are now already at port



  • I tried pushing hard east with Austria supported by Ottomans and left the Germans to deal with France.  It can be a gamble but the 2 games I played it forced Russia to divert some of her stacks southward, relieving German pressure in Northern Europe.

    As for the fleet?  My first game I sortied out to the Med, took out the Italians with minimal damage but got wiped by the French.  The Ottomans are a wash with the Black Sea cruisers.

    The biggest … ace I’ve found in the East/N. Africa is Air Power.  Get a plane or 2 in Austria and 1 in Constantinople and suddenly your are doing MUCH better.  The other key is to coordinate with Germany to stretch UK to the breaking point.  Not so much beat them in combat… but force the British to constantly switch buying priorities.  If they go whole hog in India… Ottomans are done.  BUT… distract the Brits a couple turns and the Turks can really really capitalize.  Once they break the line at Sevastpol… the Russian east is wide open.  Sevastpol needs to fall really by turn 3… or at least contested and bypassed.



  • @KimRYoung:

    @Aristokles:

    I don’t understand, what’s the advantage to having the AH fleet in the Med, but not attacking with it?

    Really. France will attack the Austrians on her turn, and the Italians will finish them off on theirs. They can absorb the hits on their BBs, repairing them the next turn. Austria sacrifices her fleet for no reason whatsoever.

    Kim

    Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to happen.  Thanks for confirming.

    For the reason, I already stated the reason.


  • '10

    Purpose here would be to force the French navy to support the Italians, keeping them from sailing up to support the British, and thereby hopefully allowing the Kaiserliche Marine to gain naval superiority in the north Atlantic.



  • @Texas:

    @KimRYoung:

    @Aristokles:

    I don’t understand, what’s the advantage to having the AH fleet in the Med, but not attacking with it?

    Really. France will attack the Austrians on her turn, and the Italians will finish them off on theirs. They can absorb the hits on their BBs, repairing them the next turn. Austria sacrifices her fleet for no reason whatsoever.

    Kim

    Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to happen.  Thanks for confirming.

    For the reason, I already stated the reason.

    Wow so your strategy involves throwing the starting AH fleet away to no purpose?
    This validates my overall point that you and your A&A partners are simply not very good at this game and that is why you get scewed game results from the rest of us



  • @Uncrustable:

    @Texas:

    @KimRYoung:

    @Aristokles:

    I don’t understand, what’s the advantage to having the AH fleet in the Med, but not attacking with it?

    Really. France will attack the Austrians on her turn, and the Italians will finish them off on theirs. They can absorb the hits on their BBs, repairing them the next turn. Austria sacrifices her fleet for no reason whatsoever.

    Kim

    Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to happen.  Thanks for confirming.

    For the reason, I already stated the reason.

    Wow so your strategy involves throwing the starting AH fleet away to no purpose?
    This validates my overall point that you and your A&A partners are simply not very good at this game and that is why you get scewed game results from the rest of us

    Geez, I guess I have to spell it out for you, here is what it achieves:

    • pulls the French fleet east, they wouldn’t be able to support the UK now
    • blocks the UK cruiser from heading to the Atlantic, but it may attempt to finish off the Ottomans anyway
    • Albania goes the first round inactive
    • the French and Italian fleets are now damaged and susceptible to counterattack on A2


    • the French and Italian fleets are now damaged and susceptible to counterattack on A2

    By What?

    Kim



  • @KimRYoung:

    • the French and Italian fleets are now damaged and susceptible to counterattack on A2

    By What?

    Kim

    They were damaged from their attack on the Austrian fleet.



  • @Texas:

    @KimRYoung:

    • the French and Italian fleets are now damaged and susceptible to counterattack on A2

    By What?

    Kim

    They were damaged from their attack on the Austrian fleet.

    And who is going to attack them, the Austrians are sunk.

    Kim



  • @Texas:

    @KimRYoung:

    • the French and Italian fleets are now damaged and susceptible to counterattack on A2

    By What?

    Kim

    They were damaged from their attack on the Austrian fleet.

    But not nearly as bad as the AH fleet IMO
    Seriously what a simple argument 😛

    More than likely all the Allies will get is a few damaged BBs (which will immediatly repair next turn since they are already at port)
    At worst they may lose a cruiser
    AH will lose a BB a cruiser and a transport lol its entire fleet

    so AH loses 27 IPCs of units, while the allies maybe lose 9
    do you see the idiocy here?

    the thing is even if you leave AH fleet at home and buy a sub or cruiser, it is in the Allies best interests to attack it and get it out of the way by the end of round 1, so that they may focus the bulk of their fleets in the Atlantic for the rest of the game
    In the 5 games i played, 4 of them the allies attacked the AH fleet at home (2 games with sub buy 2 with cuiser buy AH1) and all 4 ended up allied victories. the one game france wiped them clean only losing 1 of its battleships the other damaged

    the closest the AH fleet came to surviving was with a cruiser buy, France got really unlucky rolls and only damaged the BB while losing both its BB, but UK sent in the cruiser avoided the mines and scored one hit. then Italy went in and finished them off with only a damaged BB left

    AH can ill-afford to buy any fleet

    Germany will control the atlantic for atleast through the 2nd round anyhow so it doesnt change anything there



  • What if AH buys two battleships turn 1?



  • @Uncrustable:

    This validates my overall point that you and your A&A partners are simply not very good at this game and that is why you get scewed game results from the rest of us

    I don’t understand the point of this statement at all.  I haven’t used this strategy in a live game, I am throwing it out there for feedback.  It is also part of a larger game plan that I have been working on over the past couple weeks.  Most of the ideas that I have posted are just that, ideas.  They haven’t seen a live game.  I have no idea how anything in this thread reflects the playing ability of anyone.


  • '10

    @Texas:

    @Uncrustable:

    This validates my overall point that you and your A&A partners are simply not very good at this game and that is why you get scewed game results from the rest of us

    I don’t understand the point of this statement at all.  I haven’t used this strategy in a live game, I am throwing it out there for feedback.  It is also part of a larger game plan that I have been working on over the past couple weeks.  Most of the ideas that I have posted are just that, ideas.  They haven’t seen a live game.  I have no idea how anything in this thread reflects the playing ability of anyone.

    Yeah, the purpose of this thread is for thought experiments of somewhat off-the-wall ideas.  I don’t get to play often enough to spend time on offbeat ideas, nor are my teammates often willing to entertain harebrained schemes.

    Having said that, I don’t see much benefit to advancing the AH navy without a follow-up threat, and probably not even then.  I guess it might keep the French in the Med for one round, though, which might could help Germany.  Heavy cost, though, to give up the Med so early.

    @Texas:

    What if AH buys two battleships turn 1?

    Hmm, that’s interesting.  i guess it depends on what the other Powers are doing.  It seems like either Germany or Austria one has to go ground troops just to maintain, so I don’t know if they can afford to do that while Germany also goes boats, but maybe.  Actually contesting the Med might theoretically draw some money from France, even–Italy can’t afford to fight a naval war once their initial stuff is gone.

    Anybody have any input on the Germans saving up to buy like ten or twelve tanks round four (like, with a ground-based, defensive strat–not Kaiserliche Marine)?



  • I have been thinking that as well.  Reserve 12 IPCs each round in the first three to dump a bunch of tanks turn 4.  I like the idea.  In my opinion tanks are the key to winning with the CPs, the earlier you can get a large stack of them, the better.


  • Customizer

    Can Germany afford to have that much wonga sitting in the bank? You still need infantry to soak up hits when the tank stack is attacked. The Germans should still be able to afford, say 6 tanks on turn 4 then 6 more turn 5.



  • AH must NOT waste any money on ships!

    Germany must not waste any money on ships!

    Ottoman Empire must not waste any money on ships!

    Ground forces and fighters that’s all there is for the CPs to win - nothing else!
    And even then it’s difficult enough!



  • @xxstefanx:

    AH must NOT waste any money on ships!

    Germany must not waste any money on ships!

    Ottoman Empire must not waste any money on ships!

    Ground forces and fighters that’s all there is for the CPs to win - nothing else!
    And even then it’s difficult enough!

    For those not familiar with brainstorming, the idea is to generate ideas, not shoot ideas down.  As far as your comments on ground forces, can you provide a bit more on what your plan is?



  • @Flashman:

    Can Germany afford to have that much wonga sitting in the bank? You still need infantry to soak up hits when the tank stack is attacked. The Germans should still be able to afford, say 6 tanks on turn 4 then 6 more turn 5.

    You have a good amount if infantry to start with, the idea is to not be so aggressive before tanks make it to the front lines and conserve the infantry.



  • @xxstefanx:

    AH must NOT waste any money on ships!

    Germany must not waste any money on ships!

    Ottoman Empire must not waste any money on ships!

    Ground forces and fighters that’s all there is for the CPs to win - nothing else!
    And even then it’s difficult enough!

    How do you resolve the problem of the UK, France, and US putting 75-90 IPCs worth of units in Paris every turn?  The only way I know of is to disrupt it with a CP navy.


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