• @trihero:

    Germany +2 then -1 = +1, then Russia is -3, so the net difference is -4 IPCs Russia.

    I think that works out to -2 for Russia, not -4.  (+1-3=-2)

    But -2 is still worse for Russia than -0.5.  Especially since the -0.5 also results in a dead German tank.

    So the short term economics clearly favor allowing that German tank to blitz to Arch.

    I do not agree that an Inf or 2 plus Armor going to Arch in R2 means that Russia has a lot of units out of postion to contest the South.  The Armor can still get to the South on R3, and any surviving Arch Inf can help trade Kar on R3, which you would otherwise probably be doing with WR units.

    For the most part, allowing a German Tank to blitz to Arch gives me something to kill with Russian Armor on R2, Russian armor that otherwise would probably not be used.  And I’d rather kill that German tank now when its alone, than later when its backed up with Inf.

    Lastly a point was made that allowing the tank to blitz to Arch forces Russia to react to Germany, ceding the initiative to Germany.  I don’t look at it that way.  By leaving Kar bare, I’m the one trying to trick Germany into blitzing to Arch.  So he’s reacting to me, in a way that I want him to react.  As Russia, I’m dissappointed if Germany does not blitz to Arch, it means he didn’t fall for my trap.


  • I think that works out to -2 for Russia, not -4.  (+1-3=-2)

    No, you see, anything positive for Germany is negative for Russia. So +1 for Germany is the same as -1 for Russia, so -1 and -3 together is -4. What you’re doing is if Russia had +1 then -3, that would come out to -2.


  • Doh, now I feel stupid.  Of course you are right.  Though it only further lends support to my contention (which you support) that leaving behind a “blocker” in Kar on R1 is a bad move for Russia.

    And thank you Tri (and DM), for championing my cause here.  You’ve done a much more eloquent and thourough job than I could have.


  • OK, a poll then…

    If you’re Germany, and you see a lone Russian infantry in Karelia, how do you attack it?

    The answers will provide the evidence for my assertion that the blocker is a good thing for Russia. Germany has to use either 3+ infantry to kill it, or 2 infantry and a fighter. That compromises some of Germany’s other options.

    Example- 3 infantry in Karelia means 2 less in E Europe, which means potentially 2 less in Belo or the Ukraine on G2 if Germany wishes to push forward. As we all know 2 infantry can often mean the difference mathematically whether a move is feasible or not .

    And if a fighter is used, well… Germany’s air power is needed more in other places. Every battle is critical.

    IMO, leave the blitzing tank out of the equation. The blocker forces German offensive action that otherwise would be a simple 1 infantry walk-in. As the German player, which one causes more potential problems-  stepping in to Karelia for free or being forced to assault it?

  • Moderator

    I don’t attack Karelia on G1.

    If it is empty, I’ll move an inf from Fin to take it and tranny the other 2 inf to EE.

    If it is occupied (by 1 inf), I’ll keep 1 inf in Fin and still tranny 2 inf to EE.

    My G1 is occupied by a counter of Ukr (or Belo - although I may chosse not to counter that either), as well as killing the British BB and DD in the Med and taking out Egy.

    So I do about 4 battles, which I think is more than enough.

    1 sub, 4 ftrs to UK BB
    BB, loaded trn (possibly ftr if I have an extra) to UK DD
    4 inf, 1 arm, 1 bom (if 1 inf bid to lib) to Egy
    necessary inf (1-3 pending on how R took it) to Ukr (or belo) with 5th ftr

    I perfer to build up and move in force rather then risk nickle and dime myself to death.  My stack on EE tends to range from 7+ inf, rt, and 4+arm after G1.

    And for this reason I don’t think it is that critical for Russia to even defend Kar on R1.

    I perfer to take Belo with 3 inf and 2 ftrs and move in force to WR with 9 inf+ with needed rt and/or arm support.

    I rank Ukr as more imortant then Kar, thus that is generally my focus no matter which side I play.


  • I always just run Karelia over with 3 inf from Norway. To me they have absolutely nothing else to do, so I’m hardly stretched for units. I use the tran to bring 2 inf from W. Europe over to E. Europe; I consider it a waste of resources to defend W. Europe on G1 when the UK has no feasible way to take it without risking their navy. Those 3 inf in Norway will never have anything to do if you’re the type that runs the Baltic navy away anyways, since there won’t be a tran to help them out.


  • But Tri…

    The UK navy in SZ7 at the end of UK1 is not a bad move.  UK drops an AC and loads it with existing FIGs and another TRN.  Russia blocks in SZ6 on R2.  Only way Germany can attack that fleet is with AF… and 4-5 FIGs and a BOM against 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BB, 2 TRN is not a happy fight for the Luftwaffe.


  • Huh? Subs can go right through the Russian sub, for starters to get to the UK fleet to act as fodder for the Luftwaffe. Secondly, I hope the UK didn’t land anywhere otherwise it will just about troopless and can be boarded through SZ8 from the gibraltar fleet as well as through SZ6. A carrier + transport leaves you with 2 infantry leftover to purchase, so hopefully you didn’t land in W. Europe with many forces otherwise it’s very bare with like a bomber and 2 inf.

    I don’t think it’s a terrible idea to build defense with the UK fleet, but you have to be very careful about it, and you’d better hope the US rocks at logistics since it’ll be acting as a major landing force instead of UK with the  UK’s cash going into defense.


  • If UK and US are idiots, and the Germans and Japs geniuses, the Allies will lose.

    If you attack a country with ground forces, whatever ground forces you attack with are committed.

    For this reason, I like to have three USSR fighters and some artillery.

    Tanks are a must-have; if Germany does massive infantry push, the tanks can rush back east to mess with Japan.

    Basically, I usually build a fighter, LOTS of infantry, and a couple of artillery every so often.

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