• Not really Nix…

    US and UK can be landing forces in pretty fair numbers on Turn 3… and with a Navy strong enough that even a 3 FIG buy would be hard pressed to kill it (since Germany would HAVE to do it with FIGs, since the Baltic fleet is dead without buying units for it on G1).

    All just a matter of wait a couple of rounds… THEN move forward…

    Look at the board and the starting units and assume Naval buys as US and UK (and put the US ships in the Atlantic this time 😛 )

    :mrgreen:

  • 2007 AAR League

    You underestimate the figs. I have Nix using them against me now with great success. Germany is sort of “weak”, but still a force of 10 figs keeps me on my toes all the time. With the range he can strike a lot of areas so whenever I stack I must consider that he can add an additional 10 figs to the combat. UK is slowed, and the US doesn’t have any troops in either Europe or Africa. I must admit I could have played US better, but Japan could have fared a lot better as well so I think a beefy luftwaffe isn’t such a bad idea after all.


  • 10 FIGs on attack is 30 points… 6 dead units on strike 1.

    6 TRN, 1 BB, 2 DST, 2 AC, 4 FIG is 38 defensive points, 7-8 dead.

    Round 2 of combat the last German FIGs die, and the Allies are left with a BB, 2 AC and 2-4 FIGs, give or take a unit.

    That is a viable Turn 3 Atlantic naval battle…  Allies just have to execute it…

    And if Germany does not attack… 12 divisions a turn to Europe…

  • 2007 AAR League

    Then I’m doing something wrong…

    And when I did land I got OBLITERATED.

    14 inf, BB shot, 9 figs, 1 bomber vs 9 inf, 2 art, 4 arm, 3 figs, AA

    Nix captures w.europe with 1 inf and 9 figs surviving…

    However, now I see he has entered only 8 inf, but even still.


  • Bad dice happen 🙂


  • No fighters were shot down with the AA?

  • 2007 AAR League

    1 bomber was lost in action.  (for a total of four German Bmb´s to die total due to AA guns in this game)


  • Do you Nix only buy planes and inf? 1bomb/1fig rest is infantry, hmm not a bad idea, it can really keep germany going and the allies has to really bring stuff to keep western europe. Best place would be for a concentrated allied effort in russia. Norway as the key supply point.

    If you play with average dices and with good players in A&A it’s so balanced that it really won’t end. We played once a huge 12h game where axis first pushed then allies pushed back, then again axis and once again allies pushed back. Wavering for one side with advantage, but bad dices ruled that advantage away always…laah. We played 10+ turns and decided to end it in a draw, 12 hours is too much…

  • 2007 AAR League

    yes i only buy Fig and Inf, and an occasional art if i get an odd IPC count….

    The thought is that Inf are fodder, Figs are my “flying tanks”, who can both defend and attack, without need for waiting out the counter-attack.

    It´s allso there to pick of unguarded allied ships, thus forcing USA and UK to buy defensive fleets first and Trns later.

    It allso as i said before keeps allied Figs on ships instead of being in Russia.

    But i need more thoughts on it…  (after i get a couple i´ll start defending my self  😛  :-P)


  • you need no additional thoughts on the matter.

    if it works, it is a good strategy by definition.

  • '10

    @Thamor:

    Best place would be for a concentrated allied effort in russia. Norway as the key supply point.

    I am playing a game with Malus at the moment (in the Games section) and I am making a concentrated effort in Russia as the Allies.  I have found that Archangel, not Norway, is the key supply point.

    Archangel is one space away from Russia, so inf only have to move one space after landing to be in a defensive position in Russia.  Also, being only one space away from Russia, it is easy to control the territory.  If Germany tries to take it, the Allies can take it back by landing troops from UK or moving them from Russia.

    Aswell as being a tough nut to crack defensively, having 3 main armies in one territory (Russia) can set up a 1,2,3 punch if necessary.

  • 2007 AAR League

    its working against me, i keep hammering away as the us in africa, he always kills my fleet, im now trying to build for that big push>>>>>>we will see what happens, look at our game , it is def different. russia w 37 ipcs, germany w like 10 figs


  • Actually, if you are doing a northern reinforce, Karelia is the landing zone, and the key territory is West Russia.

    If the Allies are landing in Karelia (or movng there from Norway), and can start moving forces into West Russia, Russia is MUCH better shielded than sending troops to Moscow via Archangel.

    From West Russia, US and UK troops threaten the entire German advance, as well as their supply lines.  It is a FAR superior position for UK and US troops IF the plan is to shield Russia.  This of course also allows Russia to turn to face Japan’s advance… IF the Allies can get there in enough force.

    The trade off with this type of strat is the length of Allied supply line.  The US needs 3 turns to get a build unit to West Russia.  UK needs 2.  It also has Germany facing in one direction, allowing them to concentrate their forces better.  The only way to prevent that is to make the occasional landing in Western, and that puts hiccups in the supply chain to West Russia…


  • My point in Norway, was it is shielded pretty well from axis counterattack. And with unloading troops in Norway, you can change your direction in a flash and make a big push to france or even germany, if german baltic navy is destroyed. Another point in coming from norway, is that germany must push karelia back to himself, but this will weaken his effort in making a push to russia. So it’s pretty much left with holding it’s own and waiting for Japan, but that is the usual way A&A:R goes :), Norway is a good landing zone for planes too. Moving troops to norway gives you more push with allies, than trying to ship troops with transports which is very slow and hard as well costly…


  • I think that Karelia is the best staging point for an allied simply because it is on the border for Eastern Europe which is a vital German territory.  If you load infantry and tanks on to Norway you can only attack Eastern Europe with the tanks on the next turn, but if you drop them in Karelia you can use both to attack.  If Russia plays using the West Russia stack and the UK and US build up in Karelia then it limits Germany’s options.


  • One other thing to consider with staging in Karelia versus Archangel or Norway (expansion on the above that it is adjacent to Eastern Europe)…

    It forces Germany to move their forces from Eastern to Karelia rather than form Eastern to Ukraine.  This MASSIVELY reduces the pressure on Caucuses (the weak point of Russia on the German front) and isntead makes Gemany go the Northern route… not gaining an IC, and facing Russia’s highest build rate, and with repeated Allied counter attack opportunities… including Allied shore bombardment.

  • '10

    @ncscswitch:

    Actually, if you are doing a northern reinforce, Karelia is the landing zone, and the key territory is West Russia.

    Yeah, I can see your point and I do agree with you.

    In my previous post I wasn’t thinking broadly enough.  In my game against Malus I was trying an alternate strategy, attempting to contain Japan, which left Russia going it alone against Germany longer than they normally would.  In this instance the Russians were pushed back to Moscow before Allied reinforcements arrived on the mainland.

    It was more beneficial for me to land the troops in Archangel so they could help defend Moscow as soon as possible.


  • I agree that if going north the best spot is Karelia for all the reasons mentioned.

    The downside with going to the north and not to Norway is that it gives a breather to Germany- the Allied fleet can’t hit the Baltic Sea Zone. This allows Germany more discretion in what it has to defend. Personally I’d rather dump Allied troops in Norway to keep the pressure on the coast of Germany and E Europe. The same thing with Algeria. SZ 12 pressure means that Germany can’t relax in S Europe, keeping more troops from the conflict with Russia.

    Just something to think about.


  • But Karelia landings also keep the Alloied fleet relatively safe from Germany…  especially if Germany built some fleet in G1, and still has a lot of AF…  In order to reach SZ4, Germany would have to base FIGs in Eastern, not Western or Germany.  Also, an AA moved from London to Karelia would be a pain for Germany in a counter-attack on SZ4.  And of course, ships in SZ5 can;t reach SZ4 in a single move…


  • Just to throw my 2 cents in there…

    If the allied navy didn’t engage combat with the german navy, it’s probably because it has too much defensive value and it is best left alone. In that case, moving the allied fleet in SZ 4 could mean an isolated fleet. The German navy could easily move to SZ 3 and stay put… blocking the access to the UK reinforcement. In that case the allies are forced to attack the fleet, encuring serious casualties… slowing down their war effort… which is the purpose of a baltic fleet IMHO.

    I do not believe it is a wise move to move to SZ 4 because of that… and also like 88 mm said, it gives Germany a breather.

    Wood the Rook.


  • Germany’s fleet out and about is a target… not only Allied navy, but also all of their AF can be used to take it out.

    A German fleet in SZ3 is a DEAD fleet in SZ3…

    Sure, Germany can sacrifice their fleet and slow the Allies 1 turn, but at the cost of leaving Baltic landings open, and that totally changes the dynamic of the above discussion.


  • If Germany does a naval build in G1 then with the resources that the US and UK has early in the game they should be purchasing naval units to counter this.  The UK doesn’t have to reinforce Karelia alone the US should be helping.  It is difficult for Germany to purchase enough naval units to keep up with the US and UK while putting pressure on Russia.  Also if you use the UK territory as the staging ground for UK and US fighters and Bombers you have increased the offensive punch of the Allied Navy if the Germans tried to block them in.  Every game isn’t the same and obviously what happens during the game dictates your actions.  IMO Allied control of Karelia is important.  If you have control of Karelia then you have cut any German forces in Norway off with the exception of troops ferried over by transport.  If the Germans want to keep control of Norway they would have spend resources to keep a multinational force out.  the Allies having control of Karelia keeps the Germans attention on the north.  This frees the Russian player to attack in the South if they have the resources if not it at least buys the Russian player some time to build a defense.  IMO Karelia gives the Allies the best options for pressuring Germany and giving aid to the Russian player.


  • That was mostly my point A4L, excpet for one thing… Norway is a lost cause for Germany, period.

    Even once Germany has Karelia, they are not likely (nor would they want to) to do a major counter-attack to Norway when the same units could be used to go to Archangel or West Russia and be on the doorstep of Moscow.

    Norway’s income is somethign that I write off as Germany after G1.  If somehow I get paid for it after that, it is a bonus, but certainly not somethign worth spending troops on recovering.


  • I agree Germany trying to hold on to Norway is pretty futile.  The resources are better spent heading towards Russia.


  • In one of my games, I had staged UK in Karelia with about 15 units…

    at one point of the game, I also had 5 trannies in SZ 4…
    I pulled 10 units out of Karelia and put them into an amphibious assault in Western Europe!
    Germany didn’t see that one coming, I can tell you!!!
    USA could easily reinforce W-E massively as well, so G ended up looking at about 20 units in W-E.
    I can tell you: the next round G was taken and my adversary resigned 😛

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