Alternative Winning Strategy and Tactics for Central Powers

[ColonelKurtz]

Very interesting … I never buy subs. Battleships have so much more value.
Haven’t played with the tournament rules yet.

[Cow]

hmm I never bought naval for Italy.  Always thought of it as kind of a wash.

[ColonelKurtz]

No one is talking about buying naval units for Italy.
Italy starts with a battleship, a cruiser, and a transport in SZ 17.

[Cow]

I meant AH buying naval  to be used against Italy.

You were talking about AH buying naval for Italy. I prefer to buy ground units and fighters. Naval is kind of wonky because transports sucked since anniversary edition came out.
~
The Italy first strategy is pretty simple you get it on round 5ish usually. I do not really think naval speeds up the process by much. You could just get fighters instead. Transport is too garbage of a unit sadly and you have to protect it.

America sucks in this game because it has to waste money on transports.

[Cow]

AH is 4 turns away from Italy, in an  Italy first strategy usually your round 1 stuff is what goes to it then you just get fighters for the main battle and infantry to keep russia away.

If you get naval it is stupid because it only puts 2 infantry 1 turn closer to Rome for each transport. Since you are taking it on round 5 usually like it is better to just send more of your round 1 units in that direction.

You attack at round 5 if you lose you lose the game simple as that, that is how all ins work. So send enough to take it and buy fighters as necessary.

So between 5 territories that make it for a round 5 attack on rome, you pick out whatever you feel is enough to take rome and you move the units in that direct. Add fighters to gain air superiority later. You can advance 1 infatry on round 2 in that direction to be with your fighters 2 space away.

As long as you plan proper it is not hard. Transports do not improve things. Maybe if I can get rome a whole round quicker it would be worth the investment. Can you take Rome on round 4 with naval purchases?

[ColonelKurtz]

Mr. Cow, you have completely missed the point.
No one is talking about AH using transports.
The whole issue here is protecting the southern flank of the Central Powers by minimizing casualties in the Balkan territories of Albania, Serbia, Romania, and Bulgaria.
Taking control of SZ 17 prevents the Allies from mobilizing Albania.

[Cow]

Why not just all in Italy and take him over? It is pretty easy to round 4 or 5 him. Best way of minimizing casualties is to prevent the enemy from making units.

[alejsgo]

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[ColonelKurtz]

Thanks for the comments and thoughts. When warships enter a SZ which contains enemy warships, battle is mandatory, is it not?
This also affects the answer to your German Navy hypothetical question, as the Russian Battleship would battle the German fleet.
I have found that the Russian players have rarely made the 2 naval moves that you described, but I will now make that a standard sacrificial move whenever I play Russia. (Thanks)
As to the French actions via Canada and the Atlantic, the French usually are mobilizing Portugal with one transport protected by a Battleship. If the British fleet is destroyed on Round 1, they are in “protection mode.” The Germans should invest in purchasing 2 Battleships until they control the shipping lanes between the British/American ports and the French mainland.

[ColonelKurtz]

We play-tested this again yesterday with the result that Central Powers won. Rome and Paris fell just as the last holdouts in Russia were barely surviving.

[Chacmool]

@ColonelKurtz:

Mr. Cow, you have completely missed the point.
No one is talking about AH using transports.
The whole issue here is protecting the southern flank of the Central Powers by minimizing casualties in the Balkan territories of Albania, Serbia, Romania, and Bulgaria.
Taking control of SZ 17 prevents the Allies from mobilizing Albania.

only one AH-BS and the two turkish cruisers will not be enough to hold off the british fleet (1 BS,2 Cruisers), the frenchies and the russians.

You will need two turns of complete naval buys as Austria to get strong enough in SZ17

[Oddbjoern]

I have a hard time understanding how this would work? In AH1, AH would send the fleet into sz17 and buy 1 BS right?
If the allies arent totally bad they would:
R1 - Attack sz20 with 2 cruisers from sz21 (lets assume they atleast get 1 of the ottoman cruisers)
F1 - Reinforce/Attack sz17 with 1BS and 1 Cruisers from sz16. F would surely destroy the remaining AH if there are any.
B1 - Reinforce sz17 with 1 Cruiser

So with this in mind the Ottomans cant do anything with their navy(1 or zero cruisers), since the allies would have 1 BS+2 cruisers in sz17.
AH cant do crap in round 2 either with their 1 BS and buying 1 more would be a bigger waste, since in the british round 2, they would send in 1BS and 1Cruiser that started the game in sz29.

In my opinion all AH have done is wasting 12IPC on a BS that was really needed for ground forces.

[ColonelKurtz]

I am a bit humbled at these responses, honestly. The strategy works for me when playing against my peers, but you (Chacmool and Oddbjoern and alejsgo) are strategizing at an extremely high level of play. I salute you.
When I play as a CP player, I build a few German Battleships and keep the Atlantic routes in jeopardy for as long as possible. The British and French fleets are busy establishing Atlantic Supremacy, so they are not helping out in the Med (SZ 17). The Allies spend lots of IPCs doing this, but to delay them is the strategy for CP.
Your points to counter this are well made and valid.
I will rename this strategy as “Sea Zone 17 Gambit” and continue to hope that those whom I play do not read the countermoves as posted in this forum.

[DarthShizNit]

I tend to play much more casual games. And whenever I’ve won as CP, it’s been with a decent amount of naval pumped into both Germany and Austria Hungary. AH is more for a Fleet in Being, whereas the Germans tend to run around the North Sea zone for as long as possible.

[Preussener]

Hey, Kolonel K,

Where did you get the original idea for Germany’s putting all its units in Alsace? It seems very much like the German’s plan (Mannstein Plan) in WW2!

[ColonelKurtz]

Well, you know how trying to repeat history in a board game usually doesn’t work?
All I am doing is trying to seek another solution for Central Powers to have at least a 50% chance of victory as the game rules allow.
The key point on Alsace was that Germany gets a jump of one turn on France, because France always (almost always) mobilizes Belgium on Turn 1; That small diversion of effort gives a concentrated Germany a space and time advantage.

[Dukla passer]

I think it’s a good strategy,like it…about the movement of ships,can’t find something about MUST ATTACKING when you are entering the sea zone with the enemies in it…just MUST STOP.

[ColonelKurtz]

To alejsgo: On Turn 1, the thing that prevents France from consolidating transports off Canada is the remaining German subs that had the mission of sinking the British fleet on Turn 1.
To Dukla passer: you are right; I had misunderstood and thought that combat was required when enemy warships are in the same Sea Zone.

This gambit only works when A-H successfully occupies SZ 17 AND when the Allied combined navies don’t immediately react.
As I said earlier, my opponents have been unconcerned about SZ 17 until it was too late. The Germans have been forcing 3 Allied Powers to build up navies in the north Atlantic by being aggressive early on with battleships. That is a very good IPC tradeoff.

With all the moving parts, options, and player personalities, we have not had any games develop in the exact same way. This game has proved itself as very challenging for both Allies and Central Powers.

[alejsgo]

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[ColonelKurtz]

Alejsgo, you are right.
I now calculate that the SZ 17 Gambit, along with the Kill France First Strategy, has maybe a 45% chance of success (downgrading from 50% earlier estimation).
Somehow, some way, there has to be a strategy for the Central Powers to have an even chance at winning.
On purchases, I have been buying approximately 1 Artillery for every 1 Infantry while in an Offensive Phase.
When the tide turns to Defense, I buy all Infantry. The exception is Fighters; I try to have enough to gain Air Supremacy on the most vital fronts.
I am now switching to a buy of 1 Artillery for every 2 Infantry, to cover casualties.
Anyone else have a purchase formula?