@Preussener:

Hello, all,

I have had a general strategy for Deutschland against Frankreich that has worked well, every time (6 times now).

Germany has so many land units in the beginning that they can simply go all-out navy-builds if they use their troops efficiently (something the Germans were usually known for). By using a land strategy of “Boom-and-Bust” sending overwhelming forces into one territory at a time, Germany loses very few soldiers. You will then move all armies in West and Central Germany to the west (only East Prussia and Silesia need to hold down Russia, especially when the Austro-Hungarian and Turkish players are attacking them).

Following this rule, the best thing to do on land would be to send all 14 infantry and 6 artillery into Belgium. On the second turn, use all 30-something units available (including Munich forces) to take Lorraine. Third, take Picardy. Fourth, storm into the capital with about 30-something units. And finally, the Berlin force of nearly 20 units will be “having lunch in Paris”.

As for its navy, the Germans can become a nightmare for the UK if they spend all on 2, and later 3-4 battleships, per turn. The Brits, and later the Americans, do not stand a chance on the high seas.

Once again, this strategy has worked very well for me, and I would be delighted to see how it comes out with someone else.

• Chris

You must be playing against French and British players who have no idea what they’re doing.  The French should generally be building nothing but infantry and the occasional plane until the Brits have landed enough troops in Picardy or Belgium to make a counteroffensive viable.  With the French doing this and the Brits also landing troops, I don’t see any way the Germans can take Paris in time.  I say in time because the U.S. is entering the war in Turn 4 and will also be able to dedicate amphibeous forces and navy to support the French and Brits against Germany.  Not only that, but by that time and with no offensive towards the eastern front, not only will Russia have likely avoided the revolution, they will also be able to consider making an advance on German territory.

Simply put, the Ottomans and AH are not strong enough by themselves to take down Russia without Germany’s help.  If AH dedicates everything to Russia, they will pay the price in Italy and the Balkans.  And if the British player is doing his job in India and Persia, Ottoman won’t be able to contribute much to Russia besides the Bulgarian forces and possibly one turn of infantry out of Constantinople without having to worry very soon about the loss of their own territories.

This game is a pretty simple race against time.  Can the CPs knock out Russia before the U.S. gets involved in the war and the Americans, British, and French have assembled enough troops in Belgium, Holland, or even Picardy to end Germany’s dreams of taking Paris?  If so, then the CPs have a good chance of winning.  If not, then they don’t.  I’m not saying Russia has to be revolted or taken over by Turn 4 or even Turn 5, but it needs to be well on the way to happening.  Germany and AH need to be able to start sending those troops to the Western fronts (France and Italy, respectively) as soon as possible in order to really compete.  Ottoman just needs to stay alive.  If Russia survives and can hold off the revolution, the game is over for the CPs.  That is the game.  On the other hand, if Russia is knocked out relatively quickly, it’s looking good for the CP particularly once Germany can start building tanks to accompany their forces returning from the east.  The combined forces will prove to be devastating against the French.

Based on my experience Germany really needs to develop a tank stack before they can successfully take out the French, and that can’t start to happen until turn 5 at the earliest.  If they go after the West like you suggest, by turn 5 the Brits and French should be holding a pretty good line and may have even been able to divide the German forces.  (As the allied player, I smile whenever Germany is wasting money on navy.  It’s a battle they won’t ever be able to win in the long run, especially once the U.S. joins the fight.  All that is doing is preventing them from buying more ground troops to threaten the Russians or French.)  Alternatively, they can send the bulk of their forces after Russia and have either forced the RR by then or be well on their way.  That is a much better use of their first few turns based on my experience and a better overall strategy.

I’d be willing to bet that if you surveyed everyone on this board, the vast majority of the games that involved a CP victory included taking out Russia first.  When the CP are not able to take Russia or force the RR early in the game, even if they somehow are able to get Paris as you propose, these games will inevitably result in a CP loss.  (Unless of course, the French and British players totally don’t know what they’re doing, as I mentioned earlier.)  Based on all the games I’ve played and all the strategies I’ve seen and used, the battle for Russia is 90% of the ballgame for the CP.

@Starlight:

I’m playing a game of A&A 1914 tomorrow and plan to advance on France as my main objective. I’d like suggestions from you as to the best way to assault France.
Cheers

If you’re making advancing on France your main objective, you will lose.  Germany and AH need to concentrate on killing Russia or forcing the Russian Revolution (preferred) first in order to win.  Hold the line in Belgium until troops from the east can start heading west.  Start building tanks as soon as you can, and send them west along with your leftover troops from the eastern campaign.  The key to a CP victory is knocking out Russia early, not France.  Besides, taking out France early is nearly impossible if the Brits are doing their job.

Ah, well there’s the difference.  We are playing with different Russian Revolution rules.  Those have gone through several iterations.  The current rule two weeks ago when I started playing was that the CP had to maintain at least one infantry in any contested territories and could move out other units.  No other units, allied or CP, could be moved into Russian territory that were not already there.  Russian units were removed from the board outside original territories.  Allied units had one turn to get out of Russia or they were also removed from the board.  There is no such restriction for the CP.  (And why would there be, since they caused the revolution?)  It looks to me like your interpretation of the rules strongly favor the Allies.

Assuming the rules are as I’ve stated above (whether official or “house rules”), I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the CP to expect to be threatening Moscow by turn 5 or 6.  Good axis players will be hammering Russia from Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman.  Ottoman can shut down Sevestapool as happened in my game.  Although you correctly pointed out earlier that Britain can keep reinforcing Karelia, if the U.S. is not in the war yet or just entering at the end of turn 4, what will be the cost to France if Britain is focused on saving Russia?  Despite Britain’s economic strength in this game, that just seems like a really tall order.

@Flashman:

Even if the Allies are stupid enough to allow this, how long will it take these CP units to get to the western front?

Remember that the official new ruling on RR is that the Allies can take control of CP occupied Russian tts (rather than returning them to Russia). The British should be in a strong enough position in Persia/Mesopotamia and Karelia to ensure that the CPs can send no troops back west without losing all they’ve conquered in Russia.

The Allies must play as a team, using their sea transport advantage to be exactly where the CPs don’t want them to be. If the Allies play as individuals looking after their own interests they will hand the game to the enemy.

@kraftwrk_5:

Try to get Russia in bad shape by the time the U.S. enters the war.  Ideally, you can take Moscow or at least force the Russian Revolution by turns 5/6 (RR happened in turn 6 in my game), then all your CP troops can be sent to the west.

Look at this way, why would the Allies allow the CP to build their navy?  If they are smart, they will destroy it by the 2nd turn.  They are much better positioned to maintain a strong navy, especially Britain and the U.S.  If I am the allies, I hope Austria-Hungary is wasting money on ships.  Then I can better protect Italy and France, and Russia can at least entertain the idea of making an offensive.

Tuscany will be taken back by Italy, but you get immediate IPCs (and Italy loses immediate IPCs) and you immediately put pressure on them by being only one step from Rome.  Your troops in Venice can reinforce/counterattack next turn as appropriate.  It’s all about being aggressive and moving the front.  And don’t get me wrong, I like planes - but you only need one of them to move all your artillery up to 4s.  I found that attacking a territory with a number of artillery and infantry supported by one or two planes (since most allied territories won’t have even one or two planes) was plenty effective.  I built maybe one plane a turn for the first few turns, and sent them to different fronts until air supremacy was established in each.

@BJCard:

The problem is, if you spend nothing on Navy as the CPs, the Allies can land anywhere by sea- including in Russia.  Even one submarine per turn by Germany and Austria will force at least Britain into building a BB per turn.  You aren’t trying to compete in the sea, just restricting movement of the Allies.  Typically the Allies cannot take out either the German or Austrian Navy on their own due to attacking separately and naval mines.  If Austria over time has a fleet that can threaten the Med, Britain will be forced to send ships there and buy more for the home fleet= less British ground forces in France and India.

I don’t see the point of taking Tuscany as Austria since it would be taken back by Italy anyway- you can only land 2 troops there and Italy will surely consolidate their position there.

With how fragile air power is in the game, you cannot have enough air power, France can easily buy a plane per turn for the first 3-4 turns and still have a defensive front waiting for Germany.

The bonus of the Russian Revolution is it takes that theater out of the game, plus you do not have to send enough forces to take Moscow, just enough to contest it.  You have to take Paris either way, and if you are strong enough to get Paris, then Rome should not be too bad.

The only friendly troops you can mobilize as the CPs are in Bulgaria.

Lastly, for Flashman- if Britain is landing troops in Karelia and supplying Russia from India, what is keeping France afloat and the Ottoman Empire at bay?  Are the Ottomans not going for Egypt? Â

The game setup does favor the Allies (mirroring real life), but the CP can definitely compete.  Germany, in particular, is really strong.  In the first game I played, the Central Powers won.  Here is the link to the game recap:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30705.0

I think you are spending too much money on navy.  They are kind of a worthless purchase for the Axis in my opinion.  They can never hope to compete with the Allied navy, and if they did, it would mean not spending any money on the crucial ground units they need to threaten Moscow, Paris, and Rome.  Load up on infantry and artillery, buy a plane now and then (don’t go crazy - just make sure you have enough for air supremacy in the territories you plan to attack, so you can roll your artillery at 4), and then when tanks become available, start buying them as well especially if you’re Germany.

Germany needs to keep a daunting supply line going along the coast from Poland to Belgium/Picardy, with plenty of artillery in each space to discourage / make more costly a British amphibeous assault.  Two fronts, threatening Paris and Moscow.  Austria-Hungary needs to come hard after Italy.  In the game I played, Austria-Hungary used a transport to take Tuscany on the first turn as well as Venice, putting immediate pressure on Italy.  They should also be sending troops to Russia.  (Don’t waste troops on Serbia - make only a nominal attack there as the game requires.)  Ottoman has at least a few turns to work with before the Brits really start coming for Constantinople.  Use that time to send troops to support Austria-Hungary against Russia.  Be aggressive, mobilize friendly troops, and pick up extra IPCs wherever you can (Germany in Africa, Austria-Hungary in Switzerland [a crucial first-turn pickup IMHO], and Ottoman in Bulgaria, etc.).  Try to get Russia in bad shape by the time the U.S. enters the war.  Ideally, you can take Moscow or at least force the Russian Revolution by turns 5/6 (RR happened in turn 6 in my game), then all your CP troops can be sent to the west.

@BJCard:

Is this game balanced?  Not as far as I can tell.  The CPs have a huge hurdle to cover- namely Paris.  After a few games that I’ve played Paris has never been seriously threatened- and the biggest obstacle has been supply lines from Berlin.  But this has been my most successful strategy:

Austria (26 IPCs)
Purchase:
1 Fighter, 1 Submarine, 2 Inf, 2 Art
Movement:
Venice- Tyrolia and Trieste Armies (12 Inf, 4 Art) attack 6 Inf, 2 Art
Serbia- 4 Inf, 2 Art from Budapest attack 3 Inf, 1 Art - Minimal attack on Serbia- no reason to get too many units stuck down there. 
Romania- 8 Inf from Budapest and 6 Inf, 2 Art from Galicia (14 Inf, 2 Art) attack 5 Inf, 1 Art -The Army in Romania will be the Austrian contingent in Russia- All other purchases will go to Trieste, then into Italy. 
Tyrolia- 6 Inf, 2 Art from Bohemia
Trieste-10 Inf, 2 Art from Vienna
Galicia-2 Inf from Vienna

-The Austrian strategy is to move as much as possible to Rome as quickly as possible.  The purchased fighter will most likely ensure air supremacy in Italy. 
-If Russia presses hard into Galicia, which I suppose they could, the Romanian Army along with purchased units in Vienna could hit the Russian stack. 
-If Russia hits Romania hard, the idea is the Ottomans would come to help through Bulgaria. 
-If the Allies activate Albania early, just bypass it.  It should not be enough to threaten Trieste.  If it attacks Serbia, then use portions of Trieste/Romania/Budapest forces to counter.  Use the minimum possible forces- it is better to contest a territory in the Balkans and have a few more Inf fighting in Russia and/or Italy.
-Why buy a submarine?  Well, you are growing the Austrian navy and threatening the med at minimal cost.  with 26 IPCs to spend, more than 6 on navy seems counterproductive; and if you don’t spend it your Navy may be toast quickly.  ‘Fleet in being’ at its finest.  Perhaps in a couple turns with more IPCs rolling in you could opt to buy Battleships instead of Subs.

Germany (35 IPCs)
Purchase: 1 Submarine, 1 Fighter, 2 Artillery, 5 Infantry
Movement:
If Russia stacked Poland with 18+ Infantry and 6+ Artillery, then move Berlin Army (13 Inf, 3 art, 1 ftr), Hanover Army (6 Inf), Prussia Army (5 Inf, 3 Art) - leave 1 Inf in Prussia) to Silesia- to have 30 Infantry, 8 Art, 1 Ftr. 
If Russia did not stack Poland, should attack Poland with Silesia and Prussia Armies (And Berlin Fighter).  The Hanover and Berlin Army move to Silesia for reinforcements.
In either case, the starting Berlin, Hanover, Prussia, and Silesia Armies are the German contingent in Russia.
Belgium- 7 Inf, 3 Art from Alsace, 7 Inf, 3 Art from Ruhr attack 3 Inf, 1 Art. 
Alsace- 1 Inf from Munich
Ruhr- 10 Inf, 3 Art from Munich, 3 Inf, 4 Art from Kiel.
SZ 9- 1 BB, 2 Cruisers, 2 Submarines vs. 1 BB, 2 Cruisers, 1 Transport (Hopefully this goes well)
SZ 2- 2 Submarines vs. 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Africa- um, yeah- Run around a bit, try and survive, make the Allies attack at low odds if possible.

-German strategy is to hit Russia as hard as possible early to force them into Revolution, and play defensive on the western front for as long as possible.
-All new purchases are meant for Paris.  If necessary, a temporary retreat from Belgium to Ruhr is OK as long as you are making headway into Russia.
-Buying a Submarine is an effort to slowly build up the Navy.  The longer the Navy survives (bring back survivors from SZ 9 back to SZ 10 turn 2), the more ships the allies have to buy and the less help the British can send to Russia (through the Baltic).  Cannot afford Battleships until you get a few territories in Russia, but recommend adding some in later rounds.

Ottoman Empire (16 IPCs)
Purchase: 2 Inf, 2 Art
Movement:
Bulgaria- 6 Inf, 2 Art from Constantinople (to activate the 5 Inf, 1 Art) - Ottoman Russian Contingent #1
The rest of Ottoman moves depend on what Britain did, but generally:
Play defensive against Britain; make them attack with low odds- you want them to spend money in India.
Mesopotamia- 6 Inf, 1 Art from Ankara (to add to the 2 Inf, 1 Art) - Ottoman Russian Contingent #2 -or- If Britain attacked Persia, then it fights on this front (depending on how many troops are needed).
Britain probably attacked Trans-Jordan, and there’s nothing you can do about it.  With luck it is still contested.  Doesn’t matter- you leave your Smyrna and Syrian Desert Armies in place.

-Ottoman strategy is thus- supply two Armies to Russia and the rest is spent fighting Britain in India and/or Trans-Jordan.  The best outcome for the Ottoman Empire is to take a couple Russian territories and to threaten India and/or Africa so much that Britain is forced to spend a lot of IPCs down there- and not on the Western Front.

What do you guys think?

@Flashman:

From Larry’s report on Germany:

Germany begins the game with no less than 4 submarines. None of the other powers have even one. One way for the German player to exploit this obvious advantage, and the rules help him or her right along, is to declare that Germany will begin unrestricted submarine warfare. This can be done at any time during the game. Once this is declared, Germany will be considered to be conducting submarine attacks against both the United States� and the British Empire�s shipping routes. During the US and British player’s’ Collect Income phases, the German player will roll one die for each German submarine in certain sea zones (there are 3 of them, and they are sea zones 2, 7, and 8- strategically located, I assure you.). For each roll of 1 or 2, the attacked power will deduct 1 IPC from the income it normally collects during the phase. You might ask why Germany would not immediately and always conduct Unrestricted Submarine Warfare. Well… following Germany�s declared Unrestricted Submarine Warfare the United States will immediately enter the war! That might be reason enough to force the German player to wait a few turns before turning the subs loose.

Does anyone else think this is rather weak? Scarcely worth diverting subs from attacking Allied surface fleets.

I might consider upping the damage done, and adding more SZ route targets:

The attached example has one target for each Ally, plus the target in SZ 7 which effects all Allies.

Agreed - it is a horrible move.  So what if the Germans have 4 subs?  On the odds, they are unlikely to get more than 1 or 2 hits.  So you bring the U.S. into the war for only $1 or $2 IPCs?  No way is that worth it.  Maybe if you could make it more costly, a la the strategic bombing raids from WWII 1942, where the cost is what you roll on the dice.  But even then, it’s quite a risky proposition.  Oh, and don’t think that you’ll get to do this over several turns.  If the Allied player is paying attention at all your fleet will be destroyed by the end of round 2, if not round 1.

@KimRYoung:

Question,

Since you used the optional Russian Revolution rules, did youuse the rules from the game, or the new revisions from Krieg?

Thanks, looks like you had a great game!

Kim

Thanks, Kim.  I used the Russian Revolution rules from Krieg, which is great because that is how I was planning on playing anyway.  Make no mistake, RR is a GREAT thing for the Central Powers.  (Frankly, I think I even prefer it over capturing Moscow in retrospect.)

@Texas:

Why wasn’t Albania activated until turn 4.  Did Italy just forget about it?  Also, if Italy moved its fleet out, what kept Austria from venturing out.

I misspoke - Italy actually activated Albania in turn 1, sorry.  Italy destroyed Austria-Hungary’s fleet in turn 1.  Unfortunately, Italy lost their transport to a mine in Constantinople while trying to help the Brits in Ankara (can’t remember which turn), and at that point there was nothing left for their fleet to do in the Mediterranean with Italy under heavy land assault from Austria-Hungary, so they moved the remainder of their fleet to the UK.

@Texas:

For all the reasons you mentioned for the UK is why the Germans must build a navy.

I disagree.  As my game proved, if Germany can keep up a solid supply line along the coast with plenty of artillery, the Allied navy isn’t a dealbreaker.  It’s a waste of money for Germany to buy a navy IMHO.  They need to keep building land units to force their way into Moscow and Paris.  Not to mention that it will require a tremendous navy to even challenge the allies.  In my game, the Allies (Italy, France, Britain, and even the U.S.) eventually consolidated their navies in the London sea zone only one step away from Kiel.  It took several turns worth of German income spent almost solely on navy to finally clear that sea zone out towards the very end of the game.  And don’t buy subs - unrestricted submarine warfare is useless until very late in the game and will majorly backfire if used early in the game, as it will bring the U.S. into the war immediately on turn 1 or 2 for the sake of only 1 or 2 IPC’s!

@wittmann:

Thank you Kraftwrk. Enjoyed the read and gives me hope for my favoured side(the Germans).
I see, like me, you lost the German fleet early, but, unlike me, that was not the end for you.
I need to win my second game or be forever the loser!
Unlikely to play again for a while though.
Thanks again.

You’re welcome.  Let me know if you want any more specific advice on Germany.  8-)