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Legitimate Military Target?
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Emu, then what do you call Sharon?
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Oh BTW, FinsterniS, I’d like you to name one for Israel becvause if wwe start listing how the Palestinians keep on complaining no matter what they are offered, we’d have a whole list…
It’s easy to say they are complaining, they did’nt get real chance for their indepence with the Ottam Empire, with the Brits nor with Israel, it’s their lands at least as much as the lands of the israeli. And don’t say the israeli did’nt complain in 47, or when they say palestinians are too disorganized, just after destroying their infrastucture.
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Well, i think it’s an evidence than Palestinians kamikaze are not helping the cause of their people. But saying they are primitive is very exagerated, there was less hate towards the jews in palestine than in europe some time ago, and israeli governement is’nt clean either. There is just not ONE people faulty in this conlict, sure you can think one is a little more guilty than the other, but they are still all guilty. There is no excuse for kamikaze nor for israeli attack.
Maybe I should clarify myself. :-?
By “primitive”, I’m referring to their un-called-for use of suicide bombers and acts of terrorism, rather than directing that energy to solve their problem peacefully. I’m not even sure that was the right word to choose.I’m sure there’s not just one people guilty in this conflict, but when push comes to shove, I’d be more apt to sympathize with the Israeli’s. They DO have a right to defend themselves and retaliate against acts of terrorism, just as the US does. If Native Americans started murdering regular citizens, do you think we would actually consider giving them their land back? C’mon, this is modern day. Border’s change and so do countries. The Palestinians have had plenty of opportunities to live a decent life, but through the rotten leadership they’ve gotten, they’ve been getting the short end of the stick by being led by Arafat.
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Exactly why this situation is spinning out of control. The Palestinians have bad leadership, who benefit from increased conflict. The Israelis are too (for lack of a better word) ignorant to realise that they are the only ones who can stop this. I don’t support what the Israelis or Palestinians are doing, however I know that it is Israel’s responsibility to end what they started.
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Exactly why this situation is spinning out of control. The Palestinians have bad leadership, who benefit from increased conflict. The Israelis are too (for lack of a better word) ignorant to realise that they are the only ones who can stop this. I don’t support what the Israelis or Palestinians are doing, however I know that it is Israel’s responsibility to end what they started.
of course this may be applied to the American’s/western world’s (we can only blame the British for so much . . .) dealing with the middle east . . . .
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Well, I’m not so sure about that. :-?
In order to solve a conflict peacefully, both sides have to be willing to proceed without violence. We’ve tried the peaceful way with Saddam, and I think we all know how far that got.Besides, Saddam is funding Palestinian terrorists, big time. Taking out Saddam will also cause a major hit against Arafat.
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Heres the problem:
The Palestinians kill 3 Israelis
The Israelis respond and kill 5 Palestinians
The Palestinians respond and kill 10 Israelis…And so on.
It gives the Palestinian radicals cause to keep killing. And it empowers the Israeli radicals to keep killing more Palestinians than Israelis are killed. Its a cycle, and if the Israelis don’t take it upon themselves to realise that they are the only ones who can stop it, it is going to culminate with the Palestinians getting a stray Nuke and obliterating Tel-Aviv from the map.
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@Deviant:Scripter:
Well, I’m not so sure about that. :-?
In order to solve a conflict peacefully, both sides have to be willing to proceed without violence. We’ve tried the peaceful way with Saddam, and I think we all know how far that got.Besides, Saddam is funding Palestinian terrorists, big time. Taking out Saddam will also cause a major hit against Arafat.
wow.
that’s comforting. Glad to know the next one to step up in Iraq is such a moderate.
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Iraq funding Palestinians terrorists? Well if thats cause for war, Saudi Arabia should kiss it’s ass goodbye.
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@Deviant:Scripter:
C’mon, this is modern day. Border’s change and so do countries. The Palestinians have had plenty of opportunities to live a decent life, but through the rotten leadership they’ve gotten, they’ve been getting the short end of the stick by being led by Arafat.
Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.
For the plenty of opportunities: …hmmmpf… -
@Deviant:Scripter:
Well, I’m not so sure about that. :-?
In order to solve a conflict peacefully, both sides have to be willing to proceed without violence.Unfortunately, no side seems to be willing to be peaceful.
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Iraq funding Palestinians terrorists? Well if thats cause for war, Saudi Arabia should kiss it’s ass goodbye.
Hey, I didn’t say Saudi Arabia was any less innocent. And, Yes, funding terrorism is definetely cause for war. One step at a time, however. As far as I’m concerned, you are a terrorist if you’re funding terrorism.
Unfortunately, no side seems to be willing to be peaceful.
That’s my point. :P
Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.
For the plenty of opportunities: …hmmmpf…Well, sort of. :-? The US just called for full recognition of a Palestinian state by the Israeli’s…
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@Deviant:Scripter:
Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.
Well, sort of. :-? The US just called for full recognition of a Palestinian state by the Israeli’s…
Well, that would only be following UN-resolutions, wouldn’t it ? I mean, defying UN-resolutions repeatedly brought us close to war in that area……
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I’d like to say that this conflict receives far too much media attention.
I don’t really support either side, I don’t know much about what their fighting about.
I will say that it must be hard to negotiate with people who are willing to strap bombs to their bodies and throw themselves at crowds.
I far as I’m concerned, people like that just want to kill.
Killing is all they want and they justify it by perverting the Islamic religion. -
I’d like to say that this conflict receives far too much media attention.
Too true. :o
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@F_alk:
@Deviant:Scripter:
Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.
Well, sort of. :-? The US just called for full recognition of a Palestinian state by the Israeli’s…
Well, that would only be following UN-resolutions, wouldn’t it ? I mean, defying UN-resolutions repeatedly brought us close to war in that area……
The UN resolutions have been very anti-Zionist and in some cases anti-Semitic. You have Libya with her fellow Arab countries running the UN Humanitarian Aid, and you expect Khaddafey to look at things from an objective point of view? The UN calls Zionism racist, which is not possible because Jews aren’t a race. Zionism cannot be racist because it does not discriminate against anybody.
May I also remind you, Yanny, you keep claiming it is Israel’s responsibility. Israel did her part of “the deal” in 1948 during hte population exchange when it absorbed all the Jewish refugees from the Arab world, which may I add, were not supported by ay part of the world. No one complained when they were kicked out of their homes and in some cases, tortured by the Arabs. The Palestinians left their homes willingly. The Prime Minister of Syria in 1949 in his memoirs discusses how they left willingly, so F_alk, don’t point to your website saying that the Americans and british didn’t pick up and radio broadcasts of that kind. If they didn’t, then they are deaf because the Arab countries have even admitted it. A census in Beirut claimed that 57% of all the Palestinian Arab refugees left without even seeing an Israeli soldier. The Arabs have been swelling the numbers from the beginning and they didn’t absorb their fellow borthers from the population exchange. Iraq and Syria could have used them, and to make the deal even better for the Arabs, they got all the Jewish homes and property in their lands where they could have placed these refugees. The UN even went as far as to change the definition of a refugee for the specific case of the Palestinians. They made a refugee any Arab who had left Mandate Palestine after living there at least 2 years. Let us not forget that the British promised the Jews the land in the Balfour Declaration of 1917, after they had captured the land from the Ottoman Turks. The British should have kept their word and they tried to compromise by giving the arabs 75% of Mandate Palestine, which they called Trans-Jordanian Palestine, which is modern day Jordan.
The Palestinians received many offers to get land within modern-day Israel but they rejected them. They never complained under harsher rule by Egypt and Jordan. King Hussein of Jordan even killed several thousand of them and there was no complaints. The world didn’t say anything. But the minute Israel gets them and true, their lives haven’t been good, the world starts to complain and condemn. These people are a weapon of the Arabs, aimed to achieve their goals. I can give you some harder proof if you like, just feel free to ask. A good book on the subject is “From Time Immemorial” by Joan Peters. She came to Israel to protest the cruel treatment of the Palestinians and to find evidence that they were not getting the land that was their homeland but after researching for 7 years, she found out the opposite and changed her book accordignly. A third of it is footnotes, ehr bibliography and her resources.Now, anybody have any other arguements?
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Wanna know why it’s Israel’s job to end it? Its a simple moral we learned before age 6. With great power comes great responsibility (well, some of us didn’t learn it till we saw Spiderman :)) Israel is the most powerful, democratic, and civilized nation in the region. They are the only ones who are going to settle this. In addition, Israel is most effected by this.
In America, as well as every real democracy, debates always end with a compromise. Israel is a democracy. Israel must compromise. There is no denying Yassar Arafat is not leading the Palestinians. Instead of dwelling on that like a spoiled child, Israel should just work around him.
I don’t care what you think, if Israel is a democracy, Palestine should be a free and independant state. There is no doubt that if it came to vote, over 70% of Palestinians would choose to cede from Israel. Canada made that offer to Quebec, America gives that offer to all of our commonwealth provinces.
So tell me, why does Israel not let Palestine cede? It would be in the interest of Israel’s economy, national security, and credibility as a nation. Saudi Arabia, and many other Arab states, already said that they would establish diplomatic relations with Israel, as well as reconition of Israel as a true Nation, if Israel were to give Palestine it’s independence.
If Israel does not do this, she is going to see the radicals on the Palestinian side slowly gain more power. This means more dead Israelis, up to the day where the Palestinians aquire a weapon more deadly than a bomb strapped to their chests.
And, Israel’s continued stupidity will keep costing American lives. The best thing we could ever do to improve our national security is make Israel get it’s own weapons.
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The UN resolutions have been very anti-Zionist and in some cases anti-Semitic. You have Libya with her fellow Arab countries running the UN Humanitarian Aid, and you expect Khaddafey to look at things from an objective point of view? The UN calls Zionism racist, which is not possible because Jews aren’t a race. Zionism cannot be racist because it does not discriminate against anybody.
So, a country which is discriminated does not need to follow UN orders?
Just like the Iraq, somehow.
And remember, when was the first resolution of the UN set up, for Israel to stick to its borders?Israel did her part of “the deal” in 1948 during hte population exchange when it absorbed all the Jewish refugees from the Arab world,
which may I add, were not supported by ay part of the world. No one complained when they were kicked out of their homes and in some cases, tortured by the Arabs.No one complained when any people was kicked out of their homes after the borders were redrawn after WW2….
Look at the polish and germans, who had to go west, with the soviets taking land in east poland, and the polish taking land in east germany.
Look at Pakistan,Bangladesh and India, even though it was more of a “willingly” move there.The Palestinians left their homes willingly. … so F_alk, don’t point to your website saying that the Americans and british didn’t pick up and radio broadcasts of that kind.
First, i’d like to know what that sentence means, i really do not understand it. Second: If you find “my website” i would be very thankful, as i could sue whoever guy set that up and maybe earn a lot of money with that.
And you asked for more arguments:
What reason ever is there to kill childs?
What reasons ever are there to teach hate (of Palestines/Israelis) in school?
I do not care who started it. I do care who is in a stronger position, and that is Israel, with less people living in poverty (have oyu read the stats on that, both copuntries are down, Israel less than Palestine though). I do care when civilians see the need to become “terrorists” (during WW2 that would have been called “partisans”) and when soldiers kill civilians. -
I wish that Canada had an infinitely better track record when it came to dealing with The Jews. I wish that we offered them a home here and they could all settle in Canada. There’s lots of room here, as a rule they’re good people - hard working with wonderful cultural acumen, and very well educated. Of course i wouldn’t want them to establish a new country here unless they already lived in Quebec . . . then that would be kind of funny.
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America gives that offer to all of our commonwealth provinces.
So tell me, why does Israel not let Palestine cede? It would be in the interest of Israel’s economy, national security, and credibility as a nation. Saudi Arabia, and many other Arab states, already said that they would establish diplomatic relations with Israel, as well as reconition of Israel as a true Nation, if Israel were to give Palestine it’s independence.
If Israel does not do this, she is going to see the radicals on the Palestinian side slowly gain more power. This means more dead Israelis, up to the day where the Palestinians aquire a weapon more deadly than a bomb strapped to their chests.
And, Israel’s continued stupidity will keep costing American lives. The best thing we could ever do to improve our national security is make Israel get it’s own weapons.
Firstly, about America letting states cede, that is totally untrue. America fought a bloody Civil War for 4 years to keep the south in the union, so don’t talk about America letting provinces or states leave.
You can’t let them cede firstly, because then as a sovereign nation they will declare war and then they will also be allowed to legally import arms, and these terrorists will gain their hands on these arms. Secondly, by letting them cede, they will bring their fellow Arab countries into a full scale war in the region, which they will of course claim is defensive and the world will rush to listen to them.
Do you honestly believe the Arab states would truly accept Israel? They didn’t care about the Palestinians in the Khartoum Coneference and they certainly don’t care now. They put the offer on the table to strengthen the Palestinians’ claim and to try to force the UN into taking actions against Israel. Egypt never wanted Gaza back, she told Israel to keep it when she signed peace. This whole idea of recognition won’t happen because the Arabs are playing political games, as are their new weapons ,the Palestinians.
F_alk, when I said your webiste, I was talking about the website you linked to from the forums that you said you would use as a guide to the Middle East conflict. As for teaching hate against Palestinians, that is not taught in Israeli schools. Israeli schools in recent years have been underplaying many of hte important factors that led to Israel’s creation such as the Holocaust and have moved to more global studies. In the Palestinian schhols, the Koran is taught which is clearly very anti-Semitic in many verses. The math taught there is, “If you have 3 Jews and you kill one, how many do you have left?” They’ve been teachign this kind of math since even before Israel controlled them. The PLO was founded in 1964 to liberate Palestine, which then referred to Israel before the Six Day War. BTW, Palestine isn’t a country so it can’t have stats talking about its population. And partisans attacked German military targets, they didn’t start shooting at civilians living in cities.
India nad Pakistan conducted a population exchange, Hindus for Muslims, and each country absorbed the refugees into itself. But the Arabs did not absorb the Palestinains and now they are throwing that on Israel to settle. A major problem with giving the Palestinians a country is that if you give a man an inch, he’ll want a mile. If you give the msomething, they’ll want everything, as they do today. You can’t work around Arafat, because he’s only one of many who want the whole cake.
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