1939: World at War

[Drumstix]

I’ve never played, how do each sides win.
And how can the Germans and the Japanese win if Russia’s at 88 and America’s at 110?

[TG Moses VI]

No, but this might mirror real life. :)

[EmuGod]

There’s no way Russia could have defeated Germany and Japan historically. The Russians were alreayd losing to Germany alone. Against Japan too they would not have been able to hold out.

[TG Moses VI]

There’s no way Russia could have defeated Germany and Japan historically. The Russians were alreayd losing to Germany alone.

Hmm… me thinks Russian had already won the war on Germany by December 1941.

[Drumstix]

Wasn’t Stalingrad the turn point on the war? (well atleast European war)

[TG Moses VI]

Even before the battle of Staingrad, the outcome of the war was already decided.

[EmuGod]

Now way. By spring of 1942 things were looking very grim for the allies. The Soviet Union appeared to be on the verge of collapse, Rommel was on the attack in Africa and the Japanese had taken the Dutch East Indies, Malaya, Singapore, Borneo Celebes and were preparing to sweep through the Solomons and New Guinea and were planning on tkaing Hawaii, the Aleutians, Midway and even Alaska.

Had the Japanese been fighting the Sovietso n anothet front, the Soviets would have had to divdie their forces which would have led to their collapse. Don’t forget that Stalin had to bring in hard core veterans from Siberia to help fight the Germans and if the Japanese were closing on Siberia from the east, these precious forces would have been bogged down fighting the Japanese. By 1942 over 40% of the Soviet Union was in German hands. Stalin tried to disillusion the people by making his first broadcast over the radio with his Foreign Affairs Minister, Molotov. HE claimed that German losses were at 3 million while the soviets had suffered less than 500,000 but the Germans controlled 40% of the Soviet Union and were continuing to advance. It was Hitler’s foolishness that led to the Soviet victories at Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and eventually at Kursk.

[TG Moses VI]

Now way. By spring of 1942 things were looking very grim for the allies. The Soviet Union appeared to be on the verge of collapse, Rommel was on the attack in Africa and the Japanese had taken the Dutch East Indies, Malaya, Singapore, Borneo Celebes and were preparing to sweep through the Solomons and New Guinea and were planning on tkaing Hawaii, the Aleutians, Midway and even Alaska.

Psk… the Soviet Union ony “appeared” on the verge of collapse to the Germans. In reality, Russia was significantly outproducing Germany by 1942. Rommel couldn’t have taken the Suez Canal. He was way too stretched out and would be stopped by the Brits at El Alemein (Monty was way too cautious - could’ve crushed the Afrika Korps there and then). The Japanese were on a spree, though it would’ve been better if they consolidated their gains and dug in.

Had the Japanese been fighting the Sovietso n anothet front, the Soviets would have had to divdie their forces which would have led to their collapse.

By 1942 over 40% of the Soviet Union was in German hands. Stalin tried to disillusion the people by making his first broadcast over the radio with his Foreign Affairs Minister, Molotov. HE claimed that German losses were at 3 million while the soviets had suffered less than 500,000 but the Germans controlled 40% of the Soviet Union and were continuing to advance. It was Hitler’s foolishness that led to the Soviet victories at Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and eventually at Kursk.

The German High Command was stupid. Aldolf should’ve listened to Gneral Heinz Guderian and retreated from Russia, setting up a defensive line at the Polish Border - while they still had the chance. After the failed offensive at Russia in the Fall/Winter of 1941 - they had no chance of winning. SUD probably knows more about this than I do, but the Germans didn’t stand a chance to the Russians.

Had the Japanese been fighting the Sovietso n anothet front, the Soviets would have had to divdie their forces which would have led to their collapse.

You don’t know how the Russians fight. They would would let the Japanese come, then smash them wth artillery followed by huge armored assaults after Stalin felt they had advanced enough. Japanese tanks were no match for Russian T-34s

[EmuGod]

The Germans were winning. The Russians were only outporducing hte Germans because Hitler assumed victory would be achieved in 1941 and stopped production for the land military and focused on the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Had the Germans continued to produce for their land military, they could have had the reinforcements needed to take Russia.

[TG Moses VI]

The Germans did not begin switching to a war-time economy until Feb. 1943.

[cystic crypt]

@EmuGod:

The Germans were winning. The Russians were only outporducing hte Germans because Hitler assumed victory would be achieved in 1941 and stopped production for the land military and focused on the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Had the Germans continued to produce for their land military, they could have had the reinforcements needed to take Russia.

the Germans also neglected supplies via rail for the Eastern front in favor of shipping more Jews to the extermination camps. The Nazi’s (Hitler) were so consumed with this final solution that the soldiers of the east soon found themselves poorly supplied, and eventually defeated (not saying this is the sole reason for the defeat, however it did not hurt).

[TM Moses VII]

Japan had a strong very good chance of seizing Russian Ports along the Sea of Okhotsk, but, other than that, I do not think they could have made it any further into Russia. Most of the eastern Soviet Union was a frozen tundra. More likely the would Japanese concentrated more on China, Far East Asia, and the Pacific Islands.

[TG Moses VI]

The Japan already had their hands tied up in China and Burma/India – I doubt they could’ve done much good against the Russkies.

[EmuGod]

@TG:

The Japan already had their hands tied up in China and Burma/India – I doubt they could’ve done much good against the Russkies.

The Russian army was much weaker than you make it out to be. A perfect example comes after Russia captured Poland in 1939. They fought the Russo-Finnish War agaisnt the Finns and outnumbered them 5 to 1. Yet the Russians still lost the war. Not only did the Russians lose then, when they did capture the Axis powers such as Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary, they still didn’t capture Finland.

[TG Moses VI]

Uh, Russia never lost the war with Finland, the Finnish just managed to inflict terrible causalities on the Russians and blunt their offensive for quite awhile (due to the great winter warefare and mountainous employed by the Fins). However, Finland did eventually have to make territory concessions to the Russians.

[EmuGod]

They only did so because they knew that eventually the Russians would be able to succeed. The Finns were very poorly equipped to fight the Russians so they decided on concessions. This is just an example of the inadequacy of the Russian military before and during the intial phases of Operation Barbarossa.

[TM Moses VII]

The Russians were caught unprepared mainly because of the lack of good generals killed off by Stalin in his bloody purges, assimilating tanks into the infantry, like the French, and the fact that Stalin was unwilling to believe the Germans had attacked. But as time progressed, the Russians became much better prepared and better led. The Russian military was inadequate, but they had the time and space to learn from their inital mistakes.

[D-Day]

By 1944 the Russians had blown there bolt economically speaking by 45, in aircraft alone production dropped from 17,913 fighters in 1944 to only 8.849 in 1945, Ground Attack went from 11,100 in 44 to a mere 5, 484 in 45. Frankly the Russians Economy was strained to the breaking point by 1945 even with substancial allied help. In one alone situtaion Russia would have had to face a Germany economy which went from producing only 10, 808 fifghters in 1943 to 25, 285 in 44, from 5,570 tanks in 43 to 8,337 in 44 add in the non effect of allied bombing causing temporary displacement in the conomic effort and you can see that germany was more than capable of matching Russian out put. Ask any body who plays AH’s Third Riech and they will be sure to tell you once the Germans get up off the ground it can get screay real quick.

Then add in without a western front that wold have freed up approxamatly 10 to 15 front line heavy divisions for use on the eastern front which could have A.) countered the Bagration offensive or B.) enabled Germany to launch her own attack in 44. Russian Mass is also a Myth, while some sectors of front were heavily reinforced others were weak and spoty and if the Germans had had the ability (Created by an unhindered economy and lack of second front) to exploite them a balance could have been achieved.

This also ignored the fact the entire Russian supply system relied upon the use of American made trucks and light vehicles, how else do you think they got those huge numbers of tanks? Russian manpower was nearly exhausted as well as evidenced by the large numbers of Asiatic troops, largely considered unreliable by the Red Army, in Europe in 45.

[GeZe]

russia would have died without the allies

[D-Day]

EXACTLY my friend. :lol: