Jinx's Cabinet Ministers and their Effects.

[Jinx1527]

Greetings Sirs!  :-)

My leisurely and unrealistic dream is to someday make a boardgame that would have the complexities of weather, jungle/desert/hill terrain, turns worth a month, tactical battle positioning, realistic travel time for ships etc. Basically all the complexities of a computer game, in a board game.
This is my current little project in that direction.

I realize there has been at least one equivalent topic along these lines before, specifically leadership, corporation, commander, and event cards. I was intrigued by the idea, and thought how much more interesting it would be to play a game where the war is waged not only with guns, but with diplomacy, politics, espionage and generals.

Of course, such a game would be probably quite complex and take add time and also take up more space in an already massive game. I personally would probably never be able to find someone to play using these rules. But its my current project and I’m slowly poking away at it for fun, and I plan to finish at least the ministers.

Initially I started off simply, I scanned the boards for other peeps works and thoughts, then I gathered a lists of important military and political leaders on all major participants of the war. The idea was to have a business card sized…card and on that a picture, a name, eligible position, and the modifier granted. I worked through a dozen French ministers, two corporations, several scientists, and started the military leadership. But that took too much time. Especially if I had to research every minister on Wikipedia to see how they would have benefited and/or hindered the government in various positions. Scratch that.

So, I hope this doesn’t break copyright laws, but I went to a pre-existing source of ministers and minister traits. HOI3. Then it became a matter of adapting HOI3 modifiers to fit A&A.

That gave me a glut of ministers, but an awesome lineup of modifiers that would be reasonable for that character to have. Now, with an average of four different political parties per nation, filling ten cabinet positions. That’s close to 30 ministers for Germany’s National Socialist party alone, with the rest I imagine its nearly 100.
Realistically though, at that point, once I have the modifiers figured out, all I need is a picture for each, and then its a matter of just spacing it into a smallish sized card. If I give up on the picture, which would be sad, but doable, I could probably crunch out 1 minister a minute. The pictures would boost it up to say 5 minutes each.

Anyway, this is tentative, some ministers, specifically foreign and intelligence ministers I haven’t touched yet.
Intelligence and espionage will do things like assassinations, overthrowing governments, military espionage (Porting units towards or away from a battle: false intelligence simulating intentions of landing units elsewhere), political espionage (viewing, or reshuffling top three minister cards), counterespionage, and the rest.
Foreign Ministers will do things in regards to bringing other nations into the factions, promoting trade (IPP boost), allowing annexations, countering peaceful IPP boost etc.

I’ll post my work so far. Let me know if you have any cool ideas!

Explanation of the colors:
Teal colored text is text from HOI3, as a temporary reminder of the attributes the characters held.
Brown colored text are redundants or under consideration.
Red colored text are probably slated to be wiped.

Example:

Albert Sarraut
Social Liberal
Head Of Government: Happy Amateur
Effect: No peacetime income increase.
ArmamentMinister:LaissezFairesCapitalist
Effect: Major factories are 1 IPP cheaper.
1936

Chief of the Air Force
Most of these decrease practical decay for air units.

Air Superiority Doctrine
Every 2nd Fighter unit costs 1IPP less.
Light Aircraft Practical Decay -25%

Army Aviation Doctrine
Every Tactical Bomber unit costs 1IPP less.
Medium Bomber Practical Decay -25%

Naval Aviation Doctrine
Every Medium Bomber unit costs 1IPP less.
Medium Bomber Practical Decay -15%
Naval Engineering Decay -10%

Carpet Bombing Doctrine
Every Strategic Bomber unit costs 1IPP less.
Heavy Aircraft Practical Decay -25%

Vertical Envelopment Doctrine
Every Air Base costs 1IPP less.
Strategic Airpower Focus Decay -10%

Chief of the Navy
Most of these decrease practical decay for naval units.

Base Control Doctrine
Every Naval Shipyard costs 1IPP less.
Naval Base Efficiency +10%

Decisive Naval Battle Doctrine
Every Battleship costs 2IPP less.
Capital Ship Practical Decay -25%

Indirect Approach Doctrine
Every Cruiser unit costs 1IPP less.
Cruiser Practical Decay -25%

Open Seas Doctrine
Every 2nd Destroyer costs 1IPP less.
Destroyer Practical Decay -25%

Power Projection Doctrine
Every Aircraft Carrier costs 1IPP less.
Every Light Carrier costs 1IPP less.
Aircraft Carrier Practical Decay -25%

Chief of the Army
Most of these decrease practical decay for land units.

Armoured Spearhead Doctrine
Every 2nd Tank unit costs 1IPP less.
Armour Practical Decay -25%

Decisive Battle Doctrine
Every 3rd Artillery unit costs 1IPP less.
Artillery Practical Decay -25%

Elastic Defence Doctrine
Every 4th Motorized unit costs 1IPP less.
Every 4th Mechanized unit costs 1IPP less.
Mobile Unit Practical Decay -25%

Guns and Butter Doctrine
Armies survive out of supply for additional turn.
Supply Consumption -10%

Static Defence Doctrine
Every 4th Infantry unit costs 1IPP less.
Every 6th Militia unit costs 1IPP less.
Infantry Practical Decay -25%
Militia Practical Decay -25%

Chief of Staff
Nearly all of these provide a bonus to a particular military stat.

Logistics Expert
Armies survive out of supply for additional turn.
Supply Throughput +10%

School of Defense
Once per turn when defending: one friendly unit may join the battle from up to 2 territories away.
Defend Reinforce Chance +10%

School of Fire Support
Once per turn when attacking: one friendly unit may join the battle from up to 2 territories away.
Attack Reinforce Chance +10%

School of Manouevre
Once per turn when attacking: one friendly unit is granted blitz ability.
Combat Movement Speed +10%

School of Mass Combat
Once per turn: one Infantry unit may be sacrificed to destroy any enemy unit.
Once per turn: one Infantry unit may be sacrified to gain two Milita units.
Human Wave Doctrine Decay -10%
National Manpower Modifier +5%

School of Psychology
Once per turn: one Militia unit may defend at the same values as an Infantry unit.
Organisation Regain Rate +10%

Minister of Intelligence
These increase the accuracy of the information presented
on the Intelligence screen in specific areas.

Dismal Enigma
Land Intel +10%
Naval Intel +10%

Industrial Specialist
Industrial Intel +20%

Naval Intelligence Specialist
Naval Intel +20%

Political Specialist
Political Intel +20%

Research Specialist
Land Intel +20%

Technical Specialist
Espionage Bonus +5%

Minister of Security
These ministers have various internal security bonuses,
either obfuscating enemy intelligence, aiding the capture of spies,
increasing the support of your regime,
or aiding the increase of national unity or decreasing neutrality.
One also provides a bonus to leadership.

Back Stabber
Daily Dissent Change +1%
Counterespionage +10%

Crime Fighter
Counterespionage +10%

Crooked Kleptocrat
1IPP Income Malus.
Ministers cost 1 IPP less to appoint.
IC -3%
Ruling Party Support +10%

Efficient Sociopath
National Unity Changes +10%

Efficient Sociopath
Counterintelligence +10%

Man of the People
Leadership Modifier +5%

Prince of Terror
Ministers cost 1 IPP less to appoint.
Ruling Party Support +15%
Partisan Efficiency +10

Silent Lawyer
Neutrality Change -0.01

Armament Minister
These provide bonuses to various industrial aspects and/or decrease
(primarily theory) knowledge decay.

Administrative Genius
4IPP Income bonus.
IC +10%

Air Superiority Proponent
Every 4th Fighter unit costs 1IPP less.
Fighter Focus Decay -10%

Air-To-Ground Proponent
Every 4th Tactical Bomber costs 1IPP less.
Aeronautical Engineering Decay -20%
Light Aircraft Practical Decay -5%

Air-To-Sea Proponent
Every 4th Medium Bomber costs 1IPP less.
Naval Engineering Decay -20%
Medium Bomber Practical Decay -5%

Battle Fleet Proponent
Naval Engineering Decay -25%

Corrupt Kleptocrat
Capital Factory has 1 less construction slot.
Ministers cost 1 IPP less to appoint.
Supplies -10%
Ruling Party Support +10%

Infantry Proponent
Every 4th Infantry unit costs 1IPP less.
Every 4th Militia unit costs 1IPP less.
Infantry Theory Decay -25%
Militia Theory Decay -25%

Laissez-Faires Capitalist
Factories cost 1IPP less to construct.
Airports cost 1IPP less to construct.
Naval Ports cost 1IPP less to construct.
Fortifications cost 1IPP less to construct.
Consumer Goods During Peacetime -2.5%
Consumer Goods During Wartime -2.5%

Military Entrepreneur
Capital Factory has 2 more Construction Slots.
Supplies +20%

Resource Industrialist
Railways can rail 1 additonal unit.
Resources +5%
Chemical Engineering Decay -25%

Strategic Air Proponent
Every 4th Strategic Bomber costs 1IPP less.
Aeronautical Engineering Decay -20%
Heavy Aircraft Practical Decay -5%

Submarine Proponent
Every 4th Submarine costs 1IPP less.
Submarine Engineering Decay -25%

Tank Proponent
Every 4th Motorized unit costs 1IPP less.
Every 4th Mechanized unit costs 1IPP less.
Every 4th Tank unit costs 1IPP less.
Automotive Theory Decay -25%
Mobile Unit Theory Decay -25%

Theoretical Scientist
1 free technology roll.
Nuclear Physics Decay -25%
Jet Engine Theory Decay -25%

Foreign Minister
For the most part, these affect diplomatic options, or internal politics:
increasing drift towards a certain faction, amplifying the effect of threat,
affecting the popularity drift of various parties, and in one case,
supporting the ruling party.

Apologetic Clerk
Tendency to Drift Due to Internal Factors -5%

Biased Intellectual
Susceptibility to Comintern +10%

Cloak-And-Dagger Schemer
Susceptibility to Allies +10%

Great Compromiser
Susceptibility to Axis +10%

Ideological Crusader
Tendency to Drift Due to Internal Factors +5%

Iron-Fisted Brute
Threat Impact +5%
Ruling Party Support +10%

Head of Government
As with Heads of State, these are not manually changeable,
and change during elections in government types that have elections.
Their effects are highly varied.

Ambitious Union Boss
Consumer Goods During Wartime +5%
Daily Dissent Change -5%

Backroom Backstabber
-2IPP Income Malus.
Ministers cost 1IPP less to appoint.
IC -5%
Ruling Party Support +10%

Corporate Suit
2IPP Income Bonus.
Money +10%

Flamboyant Tough Guy
Tendency to Drift Due to Internal Factors +5%

Happy Amateur
1IPP Income Malus.
Money -5%
Consumer Goods During Peace -2%

Naive Optimist
Threat Impact -10%

Old Admiral
Naval Organisation +10%

Old Air Marshal
Air Organisation +10%

Old General
Land Organisation +10%

Political Protege
Ruling Party Support +5%
Consumer Goods During Peacetime -2.5%

Silent Workhorse
2IPP Income Bonus.
IC +5%

Smiling Oilman
Crude Oil +5%

Head of State
Heads of State are not manually changeable, and only change during elections in some government types that have elections.
Their effects are highly varied.

Autocratic Charmer
2IPP Income Malus.
IC -5%
Consumer Goods During Wartime -50%

Barking Buffoon
National Unity Changes +10%
Intel During Peace +5%

Benevolent Gentleman
Susceptibility to External Pressure -5%
Organisation Regain Rate +5%

Insignificant Layman
1IPP Income Bonus.
Money +5%
Consumer Goods During Wartime +2.5%

Pig-Headed Isolationist
Susceptibility to External Pressure -50%
Change in Neutrality +0.01

Popular Figurehead
Ministers cost 1IPP less to appoint.
Ruling Party Support +10%

Power-Hungry Demagogue
National Unity Changes -10%
Espionage Bonus +5%

Resigned Generalissimo
Capital Factory has 1 more Construction Slots.
Supplies +10%
Consumer Goods During Wartime +2.5%

Ruthless Powermonger
Land Organisation -5%
National Unity Changes -20%

Stern Imperialist
2IPP Income Bonus.
IC +5%

Weary Stiff Neck
Susceptibility to External Pressure +5%
Organisation Regain Rate +5%

[Ben_D]

I’m assuming that you’ve read Bud Tarentine’s thread already; lots of good stuff there.  This looks interesting as well, but I’ll admit that what you’ve proposed is over my head.  I’d like to see this in action, or play it, to understand everything.

Taking the time to play something like this is no different than watching a TV series, reading a book or playing an RPG (there’s several I could name).  The only issue is logistics and location, which can be easily solved, relatively speaking.

I’ll comment on the mechanics if/when I get a better grasp on this.  Hope to hear more about it.

[Jinx1527]

@Ben_D:

I’m assuming that you’ve read Bud Tarentine’s thread already; lots of good stuff there.  This looks interesting as well, but I’ll admit that what you’ve proposed is over my head.  I’d like to see this in action, or play it, to understand everything.

Taking the time to play something like this is no different than watching a TV series, reading a book or playing an RPG (there’s several I could name).  The only issue is logistics and location, which can be easily solved, relatively speaking.

I’ll comment on the mechanics if/when I get a better grasp on this.  Hope to hear more about it.

Bud Tarentine’s thread was indeed quite good, I’ve read over it a few times and am mulling over it and waiting for further developments. I particularly like the battle stages/positioning and rolling for initiative. Brilliant idea.

My apologies for not being abundantly clear on my previous post, I realize after re-reading it that one must have read the other threads dealing with political leadership.

The idea behind this; is that every major nation would have a Head of Government and Ministerial Cabinet. In a following “expansion” on this idea, later on one might add other major Persons of Note: Scientists, Corporations, Unique Spies, Tokyo Rose, etc.

These Ministers would be presented using a deck of cards. The Head of State becomes locked until the next election or coup, because some have negative traits. Example: Mussolini is a Barking Buffoon, but is locked in position.
The player then would fill all his cabinet positions from the available 1936 ministers, or would draw from the 1936 deck until all positions are filled. A simple version would be to just use one party type (National Socialists or Fascist) per nation. But really after I have this database built I could easily add a handful of Communist, Conservative, Liberal, Fascist Ministers for every major nation.

Continuing; Using a small side table, or heck, pinning the cabinet to the wall behind you. They would grant you bonuses in many things and promote your country into following certain doctrinal paths. The Germans have an abundance of ministers with Tank Proponent, leading to the player naturally purchasing more Tanks due to their cheaper purchase cost.

Each year, the player would gain the next political deck, 1936, 1937, 1938, etc. With certain characters with better traits appearing in different years. By 1944, one might have a cabinet of ministers who have been around since 1936, some in 1939, some just recently appointed into position.
There is a small IPP cost for appointing ministers, generally offset by ministers with the party popularity modifier, which reduces the cost further.

Hmm, the ministers can be subject to assassination, I’m not sure if I will worry about things like death by natural causes or Rudolph Hess’s magical flight to England.

I think that’s about it! It makes the game more complex, perhaps needlessly so. But there are players that play the game to game, then there are players that play the game and part of the game is making the game, making it more complex and intricate and detailed and micro and then when they finally play the game it really becomes a completely different game from the game.  :wink:

Cheers!

[Ben_D]

I meant to reply sooner.  I have a few different questions on this.  I don’t expect any or all of them to be answered.

How many political figureheads are you planning on implementing exactly?  It looks like each nation needs about 9, and I assume each position has about 5 to 14 options on how they influence the situation (I think, if I’m reading it right).  There’s probably a few different choices as to who you can pick for a given position too, given how many you said you got from your research.  The entire political spectrum has to be represented, which creates some very interesting scenarios, as it did in real history.  Are you planning on making certain politicians have a few different attributes to reduce the number of people needed to be represented?  In GW36 (and GW39?), I’m also assuming you’re going to limit the number of nations who use these rules.  I’m guessing the nations that make 10 I.P.C.s or more as their starting income will make the cut.

The powers who will be represented (correct me if I’m wrong):

• Axis:
    - Germany
    - Italy
    - Japan

• Allies:
    - The Commonwealth:
      - The United Kingdom
      - The Far East Command (maybe, idk)
      - Canada
      - The A.N.Z.A.C.
    - The United States
    - France
    - Nationalist China

• Comintern:
    - The U.S.S.R.

I know Canada isn’t in GW36, which I find VERY DISAPPOINTING; I’ll be using house rules for that.

The powers who will not be represented (again, correct me):

• Axis:
    - Finland
    - Hungary
    - Romania
    - Bulgaria
    - Vichy France
    - Nationalist Spain
    - Argentina
    - Siam
    - Manchukuo
    - Pro-Axis Nations

• Allies:
    - South Africa
    - Free France
    - Brazil
    - The Netherlands
    - Poland
    - Pro-Allied Nations

• Comintern:
    - Communist China
    - Republican Spain

What’s your progress on this so far?  I know you said it already in the O.P., but I’m just curious.  Could you use assistance?

I’m also thinking about whether this can be added onto Bud Tarentine’s development or not.  The game would be more in-depth than most computer games haha.

[Jinx1527]

Hello Ben,
I’m happy to answer all the questions that you have! In fact, interest in this project motivates me to work on it further. :-)

@Ben_D:

How many political figureheads are you planning on implementing exactly?  It looks like each nation needs about 9,

There will be ten ministerial positions for each nation I am working on:

1 Head of State
2 Head of Government
3 Foreign Minister
4 Armament Minister
5 Minister of Security
6 Minister of Intelligence
7 Chief of Staff
8 Chief of the Army
9 Chief of the Navy
10 Chief of the Air Force

There’s probably a few different choices as to who you can pick for a given position too, given how many you said you got from your research.  The entire political spectrum has to be represented, which creates some very interesting scenarios, as it did in real history.

Yup, I’m not sure if I will go to the extent of making ministers for the entire political spectrum, at least not yet. So far I think I will go with just the ruling parties of 1936.
Later I may do a few other political parties, after I get around to playtesting this and tweaking the modifiers.

Are you planning on making certain politicians have a few different attributes to reduced the number of people needed to be represented?

Yup, I quickly did up an Italian minister for you. General Alberto Pariani, picture attached at the bottom of the post(no clue how to put it up nicely here.).

Alberto Pariani
Fascistic
Armament Minister:Air Superiority Proponent
Every 4th Fighter unit costs 1IPP less.
Chief Of Army: Guns and Butter Doctrine
Armies survive out of supply for additional turn.
1936

Don’t consider this the final idea: I need to change the Air Superiority Proponent modifier.

Pariani Alberto is a minister that the Italian Player will find in the cabinet or available in 1936. He is capable of being either the Armament Minister or the Chief of Army, with benefits depending on where you place him.

In GW36 (and GW39?), I’m also assuming you’re going to limit the number of nations who use these rules.  I’m guessing the nations that make 10 I.P.C.s or more as their starting income will make the cut.

The Powers that will be represented are only the ones that are generally taken on by the players, but the source I am using has every single independent nation existing in 1936 available. So with minimal effort I could potentially adapt the database to include…Albanian ministers.
The governing factor is pretty much my patience to find pictures of ministers to add to the cards.

Currently I’m only putting together ministers for:

• Axis:
    - Germany
    - Italy
    - Japan

• Allies:
    - The Commonwealth
    - The A.N.Z.A.C.
    - The United States
    - France and Free French
    - Nationalist China

• Comintern:
    - The U.S.S.R.

Basically, mostly only the playable nations. Although I haven’t thought about it too much.

What’s your progress on this so far?  I know you said it already in the O.P., but I’m just curious.  Could you use assistance?

I’m also thinking about whether this can be added onto Bud Tarentine’s development or not.  The game would be more in-depth than most computer games haha.

Progress is pretty much slow, its a little side hobby that I work on when I’m bored. I don’t see myself ever getting a chance to play it, so I’m not under pressure to complete anything.
Mmmm, you can assist if you like. Not with any clicking work right now, basically the next step is to languidly figure out the modifiers for the other political effects. If you have any bright ideas, shoot my your thoughts.

My current issue I’m thinking about is that I have about 6 modifiers that are the same between Armament ministers and the Chiefs of Airforce, Navy, and Army. The ones that make the {2/3/4} unit cheaper, I need to figure out what to do about that.
But beyond that feel free to shoot me idea’s if you get em.

As for mixing it up with Bud Tarentine’s and Associate development; sure! I like what I’ve read so far about their stuff, and am interested in reading about all the things they’ve added. Probably when I learn a bit more about their work I may modify my modifiers a bit as well.

The problem with these political minister cards is that all the modifiers are subject to change if the game they are built on changes, which it would once I see how……initiative and battle stance would work for instance (in BT+A development). I’m not tech savvy enough to build a database to easily modify things accordingly, and everything I do is through Wordpad (for now, heh). Which would mean tons of “Search for Phrase” stuff. So I haven’t set to the hard slog in actually working much on the ministers themselves. Though, I did do much of the Italians and French. :-)

Anyways!
Cheers!

[Ben_D]

Here’s a quick thought: 0.5 I.P.C.s might work in the same way 12 sided die made the game better over 6 sided die.  The more complex the game becomes, the more intricate the mechanics of it need to be.  I’ve been wanting to use 1/2 I.P.C.s for a while, but I haven’t tested that because all I get to do is play G40 now.  The less practical alternative would be to double the I.P.C.s for everything so that 1 I.P.C.s becomes 0.5 I.P.C.s (much like inflation with Fiat Currencies, such as our dollar).  I’ll post here again once I give this whole thing more thought.