I haven’t been active here for several years, mostly due to circumstances in my life. I’m only passionate when I’m actively involved in the scene, to which I can’t be for the time being. You’re ping here made me log in for the first tie in years lol. Perhaps sometime in the future I’ll become active again.
I’m not based in Grande Prairie anymore. I’m now in Cold Lake, AB.
I haven’t been active here for several years, mostly due to circumstances in my life. I’m only passionate when I’m actively involved in the scene, to which I can’t be for the time being. You’re ping here made me log in for the first tie in years lol. Perhaps sometime in the future I’ll become active again.
I’m not based in Grande Prairie anymore. I’m now in Cold Lake, AB.
@HBG:
So is there any word on the French units that were announced some time ago? Love to give coach my money for those!
We are working on them, getting a lot of pieces in Late October and November, Base 1936 plus refills for Japanese, Germans, neutrals, etc
French set is on pre-order now!
I guess you held true to your word, given that you didn’t specify the year :p.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Alright, so I’m going to acknowledge here that I may be over-doing it with posting this thread here (again, I suppose). I simply want to bring this to more attention, because its been discussed in other threads (such as here https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41879.0 and here https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=40647.0). I’m only trying to consolidate the discussion on the technical aspects of these mechanics (for interested parties, hopefully). I do care about this project enough to warrant peer review. Baron Munchhaussen, you did ask me about it in the past, I apologize for never getting back to you about your inquiries. I’ll make an effort to be more diligent this time around, hence this thread.
It’s not an easy read, but its purpose is to maximize clarity. There’s always room for improvement of course, in more than one aspect. Please do not be deterred; it holds good promise and intuitive play. There’s a Word document included with this post with colour coding. I think it’s a little easier to disseminate the information with it. Here’s the wall of text in the next post.
Legend:
Maroon: designates units that are attacking.
Red: used to objectify the player that is controlling the attacking units.
Navy Blue: designates units that are defending.
Blue: used to objectify the player that is controlling the defending units.
Green: used for the Turn phase. The phases are Production & Research, Combat Movement, Combat, Non-Combat, Resolution and Collect Income. Only relevant phases are partially described here for this document.
Orange: used to differentiate the subsequent turn rounds from the over-arching turn phases.
Teal: designates units, facilities and tactical abilities that are only usable after research has been completed.
Brown: used to signify the interception tactic.
Purple: used to signify the chase/pursuit tactic.
@Rank:
Exactly why we went to 1936 from oob global.
We have been tweaking the rules and mechanics too. But this is really interesting. Its like a new version of the game. I had seen some of jinx’s previous posts like the national sheets. Realy like the way you’re group is going with this. Keep it up! I’m inspired to continue our mods. So far not as ambitious as you’re group though. Id be interested to see the whole package and borrow or share some ideas. Most of ours are already posted here but I can send our modified sheets etc. They are still works of progress though every game leads to more "why don’t we? "
I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to see all of your group’s work put in a document attached to a thread. Interpreting information is hard to do when it’s not centralized, as I’m learning. I’m thinking I didn’t make it easy for people here on the thread myself.
@Baron:
Fighters have to commit on interception or dogfight in Air combat round, not both, right?
Right, not both, only one or the other.
@Baron:
Another point, which strike me: you get the opportunity with D12 system to make AAA fire more consistent with actual historical values by making it 1 /12 but instead, it is higher than OOB G40 @1/6?
I would accept that a given aircraft flying through a TT on its way to combat zone have to submit to AAA fire in addition to any AAA in combat zone. But when you add up both, it is a wall of fire2*@3 or 4 = 6/12 or 8/12 that aircraft must pass before being able to attack.
In such a high attrition game, you can make AAA cheaper with a lower defense too.
This will keep the realistic feel without compromising any air support strategy.
@Baron:
I read that AAA in combat TT get a preemptive roll, then on second combat round get regular roll vs planes.
You already have a very complex rules with many variations according to target and unit which roll.
Why not consider that all AAA roll in embattled TT is regular, no preemptive, simpler?The preemptive fire is already coming from interceptors and AAA in TTs flied over by attacker before reaching destination because attacking planes cannot retaliate and if shot down, will not make attack roll at all.
Hmm, we figured 1D12@3 and 3D12@3 for pre-emptive shots were more along the lines of what the effectiveness was for AAA. Maybe you’re correct man, I won’t pretend to know more than I do. We haven’t run into any gameplay issues yet with AAA costing 4 I.P.C.s / I.P.P.s. with pre-emptive shooting abilities. That might be another tweak that could be done.
Remember that interceptors do not have pre-emptive shots. Escorts and bombers do get to shoot back.
From what I understand so far, you would give bombers the ability to shoot back at fighters in the same fashion as AAA, except not pre-emptively. 3D12@2, with only one dice assigned to one fighter. You would also remove the pre-emptive shooting ability from AAA.
Sounds reasonable.
Just reposting this.
Turn Order
Production and Research Phase:
(production is as explained in the GW36 rule manual).
(research is as explained on the National Reference Sheet).
Combat Movement Phase:
1. Air Combat Movement Rounds:
1.1 Flying to the destination:
1.1.1 The attacker declares which territories or sea zones the aircraft is/are going through.
1.1.2 Defending Combat Air Patrol fighters in sea zones may intercept at 1D12@3 once each, or @4 once each with Jet technology. Attacking/escorting fighters may roll 1D12@3
once each, or @4 once each with Jet technology, and all bomber aircraft types roll 1D12@2 once each versus defending aircraft units. Casualties are removed immediately and
combat ceases after one round.
1.1.2 Defending fighters on airbases and/or aircraft carriers (both with the RADAR technology) may scramble to intercept and roll 1D12@3 once each or @4 once each with Jet
Technology. Attacking/escorting fighters may roll 1D12@3 once each, or @4 once each with Jet technology, and all attacking bomber aircraft types roll 1D12@2 once each versus
defending aircraft units. Casualties are removed immediately and combat ceases after one interception round.
1.1.3 Defending anti-aircraft guns may fire once (1D12@3 once each, or @4 once each with RADAR technology) at aircraft units flying over the territory. Attacking/escorting fighters
and all attacking bomber aircraft types may not fire back. Casualties are removed immediately and combat ceases after one round.
1.2 Arriving at the destination:
1.2.1 Defending anti-aircraft guns may fire once (3D12@3 once each, or @4 once each with RADAR technology) pre-emptively at attacking aircraft units arriving at the territory.
Attacking/escorting fighters and all attacking bomber types may not fire back when pre-emptive shots are made. Casualties are removed immediately. Defending anti-aircraft
guns that fire at this point do not fire at all on the first Full Combat Round that proceeds this Combat Movement Round.
1.2.2 Defending fighters and tactical bombers may scramble from territories containing air bases and/or aircraft carriers with the RADAR technology to adjacent territories or sea
zones.
2. Land Combat Movement:
2.1 (As explained in the National Reference Sheet).
Combat Phase:
3. Full Combat Rounds:
3.1a Air Combat round (meant for engaging military units):
3.1.1 Attacking fighters roll 1D12@6 once each or 1D12@8 with Jet technology once each versus defending aircraft units. The defender assigns casualties for defending aircraft.
3.1.2 Defending fighters roll 1D12@6 once each or 1D12@8 with Jet technology once each versus attacking aircraft units. The attacker assigns casualties for attacking aircraft.
3.1.3 Attacking bomber aircraft that have been assigned as casualties roll 1D12@2 once each versus defending fighters (never other bomber aircraft).
3.1.4 Defending bomber aircraft that have been assigned as casualties roll 1D12@2 once each versus attacking fighters (never other bomber aircraft).
3.1.5 All aircraft casualties at this point are removed.
3.1.6 The attacker may also chose to retreat a portion of or all aircraft (refer to the Retreat section for more information). The defending fighters may chase if conditions are met
(refer to the Chase/routing section for more information).
3.1.7 The defender may also chose to retreat a portion of or all aircraft. Refer to the Retreat section for more information. The attacking fighters may chase if conditions are met
(refer to the Chase/routing section for more information).
3.1.8 If the Full Combat Round has finished, all attacking aircraft units may proceed to land in the Non-Combat Phase, and retreating/scrambled defending aircraft units may land in
the Non-Combat Phase if they’re able to.
3.1b Strategic Bombing Combat Rounds (meant for devastation to industry and base utility):
3.1.1 Interception:
Defending fighters on airbases in the targeted territory, adjacent territories containing airbases and/or on aircraft carriers (with the RADAR technology) in sea zones adjacent to
the target territory may scramble to intercept at 1D12@3 once each or @4 once each with Jet technology. Attacking/escorting fighters may roll 1D12@3 once each, or @4 once
each with Jet technology, and all attacking bomber aircraft types roll 1D12@2 once each. Casualties are removed immediately after and combat ceases after one round.
Defending facilities may fire once (D12@3 or @4 with RADAR technology at each attacking bomber aircraft targeting the facility). Casualties are removed immediately after and
combat ceases after one round.
3.1.2 Strategic Bombing:
Attacking tactical bombers roll 1D6 to determine the number of damage on a targeted facility.
Attacking naval bombers roll 1D6 to determine the number of damage on a targeted facility.
Attacking heavy bombers roll 2D6 to determine the number of damage on a targeted facility.
Attacking strategic bombers roll 3D6 to determine the number of damage on a targeted facility.
3.1.3 The Strategic Bombing mission/s end/s and all aircraft participating in the strategic bombing round/s proceed to land in the Non-Combat phase.
3.2 Land and/or Naval Combat round:
3.2.1 Attacking aircraft units that have not rolled any combat dice in the Air Combat round may fire in the Land/Naval combat round:
Attacking tactical bombers roll 1D12@7 once each versus defending land units OR 1D12@4 once each versus defending naval units.
Attacking naval bombers roll 1D12@4 once each versus defending land units OR 1D12@6 once each versus defending naval units.
Attacking heavy bombers roll 3D12@2 once each versus defending land units OR 3D12@1 once each versus defending naval units.
Attacking strategic bombers roll 5D12@2 once each versus defending land units OR 5D12@1 once each versus defending naval units.
Attacking fighters roll 1D12@2 once each versus defending land units OR defending naval units.
3.2.2 Attacking anti-aircraft guns roll 1D12@3 (1D12@4 with RADAR technology) versus defending aircraft or 1D12@2 (1D12@3 with RADAR technology) versus defending aircraft
that have retreated in the Air Combat round.
Any hits scored on defending aircraft units by attacking anti-aircraft guns are not considered pre-emptive while attacking on any combat round.
Defending anti-aircraft guns may not be assigned as casualties before other land units if there are no attacking aircraft units present in the battle (the exception is the German
Flak 88 if it is used as artillery, not AA).
3.2.3 Attacking land units (excluding anti-aircraft guns) may engage defending air units:
at the value of 1D12@2 instead of engaing defending land units during a combat round at a ratio of 2 land units per 1 air unit when defending land units are present.
that are stationed in the contested territory at the value of 1D12@2 for only one combat round if there are no defending land units in the combat round. Combat ceases after one
combat round and the attacker may take the territory if there are attacking land units that have survived combat. The defending aircraft units must then retreat as described
under the applicable section under the Retreating mechanics.
that have scrambled from an adjacent territory’s air base at the value of 1D12@2 (no ratio) for an unlimited amount of combat rounds if there are no defending land units.
at the value of 1D12@1 vs defending aircraft units that have retreated in the Air Combat round instead of engaging defending land units during a combat round at a ratio of 2 land
units per 1 air unit when defending land units are present.
at the value of 1D12@1 vs defending aircraft units that have retreated in the Air Combat round with no ratio for an unlimited amount of combat rounds if there are no defending
land units.
3.2.4 Defending aircraft units that have not rolled any combat dice in the Air Combat round may fire in the Land/Naval combat round.
Defending tactical bombers roll 1D12@7 once each versus attacking land units OR 1D12@4 once each versus attacking naval units.
Defending naval bombers roll 1D12@4 once each versus attacking land units OR 1D12@6 once each versus attacking naval units.
Defending heavy bombers roll 3D12@2 once each versus attacking land units OR 3D12@1 once each versus attacking naval units.
Defending strategic bombers roll 5D12@2 once each versus attacking land units OR 5D12@1 once each versus attacking naval units.
Defending fighters roll 1D12@2 once each versus attacking land units OR attacking naval units.
3.2.5 Defending anti-aircraft guns roll 1D12@3 or 1D12@4 with RADAR technology versus attacking aircraft starting on the second Combat Round.
Any hits scored on attacking aircraft units by defending anti-aircraft guns on the second combat round and combat rounds thereafter are not considered pre-emptive.
Attacking anti-aircraft guns may not be assigned as casualties before other land units if there are no defending aircraft present in the battle (the exception is the German
Flak 88 if it is used as artillery, not AA).
3.2.6 Defending land units (excluding anti-aircraft guns) may engage attacking air units:
at the value of 1D12@2 instead of engaging attacking land units during a combat round at a ratio of 2 land units per 1 air unit when attacking land units are present.
at the value of 1D12@3 if there are no attacking land units and only attacking aircraft units in the combat round (no ratio).
at the value of 1D12@1 vs attacking aircraft units that have retreated in the Air Combat round instead of attacking land units during a combat round at a ratio of 2 land units
per 1 air unit when attacking land units are present.
at the value of 1D12@1 vs attacking aircraft units that have retreated in the Air Combat round with no ratio for an unlimited amount of combat rounds if there are no attacking
land units.
3.2.7 Attacking and defending units that are assigned as casualties are removed from the board.
Note: Land units that are taken as casualties are still considered present before the end of the round (part 3.2.7).
Note: Submarines are considered to be revealed to all units if they fire (roll) on a combat round, therefore making submarines able to suffer casualties from any air or naval unit. I
figured this had to be written down because of past experiences of lacking clarification.
Mechanics section
Retreating mechanics (for aircraft):
Attacking fighters, jet fighters, tactical bombers and naval bombers may chose to retreat up the amount of movement they have left after the combat round. A sea zone must contain
a friendly aircraft carrier capable of being in the sea zone that has available space if the aircraft unit is landing in a sea zone. Aircraft carriers may provide a landing area by moving
into the sea zone in the Non-Combat Phase, when planes land. Long Range Aircraft technology permits retreating up to a maximum 4 territories/sea zones away (5 from an airbase) for
attacking fighters, jet fighters, and tactical bombers, and 5 away (6 from an airbase) for naval bombers.
Attacking heavy and strategic bombers may chose to retreat up the amount of movement they have left after the combat round. Long Range Aircraft technology permits retreating up
to 7 territories/sea zones (8 from an airbase) away for attacking heavy and strategic bombers.
Defending fighters, jet fighters and tactical bombers may chose to retreat up to 2 territories, or two sea zones, or a combination of a territory and a sea zone away (or 3 from an
airbase). A sea zone must contain a friendly aircraft carrier that has available space if the aircraft unit is landing in a sea zone. Aircraft carriers may provide a landing area by moving
into the sea zone in the Non-Combat Phase, when planes land. Long Range Aircraft technology permits retreating up to 3 territories/sea zones away (remains at 3 from an airbase) for
defending fighters, jet fighters, tactical bombers and naval bombers. If there are no friendly territories or friendly aircraft carriers available for landing, the aircraft is/are destroyed.
Defending heavy and strategic bombers may chose to retreat up to 3 territories, or two sea zones, or a combination of a territory and a sea zone away (or 4 from an airbase). Long
Range Aircraft technology permits retreating up to 4 territories/sea zones (remains at 4 from an airbase) away for defending heavy and strategic bombers.
Chasing (or routing, or whatever name, I don’t know…) mechanics:
If all attacking aircraft units retreat, defending fighters or jet fighters may choose to chase all attacking aircraft by using mechanics similar to interception; 1D12@3, or 1D12@4 for jet
fighters only once each. Remove all assigned casualties from the board after one chasing round.
Retreating fighters and jet fighters forfeit combat rolls.
Retreating bomber aircraft that have been assigned as casualties as a result of chasing may roll 1D12@2 once each versus chasing fighters and/or jet fighters
If all defending aircraft units retreat, attacking fighters or jet fighters may choose to chase all attacking aircraft by using mechanics similar to interception; 1D12@3, or
1D12@4 for jet fighters only once each. Remove all assigned casualties from the board after one chasing round.
Retreating fighters and jet fighters forfeit combat rolls.
Retreating bomber aircraft that have been assigned as casualties as a result of chasing may roll 1D12@2 once each versus chasing fighters and/or jet fighters.
If only a portion of the attacking or defending aircraft units have retreated and fighters remain on both sides, chasing may not occur.
Non-Combat Phase
Baron, thanks for the post. In terms of demographics, we seem to be the secound largest group of A&A players, after the Americans. Pretty cool I think :)
Sub-sections 3.1.3 & 3.1.4 under section 3.1 (Air Combat Round) address the issue of the fighters being overwhelmed. We decided to make things work that way because of re-occurring Air Combat Rounds.
However, for section 3.1 (Strategic Bombing Combat Rounds), you have a very valid point. I like it. I’ll see what the consensus is.
Something tells me that I’m going to have to better distinguish those two points… I think 3.1a and 3.1b will have to do.
Edit: Got it done.
Do you have any modified rules, or is your group playing vanilla/stock rules? I think I’d be interested as well, as long as the timing is right.
Hey Rank, these rules are part of Jinx’s mods that he uploaded. We’ve made sure to address all other things that these rules affect, to the best of our abilities. We just didn’t like the vanilla mechanics, which is what drove us to do this.
Can anyone else confirm?