It really depends on which method you prefer.
A G1 attack can catch the Russians a little off guard and take advantage of their defenses still being relatively thin. The downfall is that Germany’s offense will also be a little thin and be more prone to Russian counter-attacks.
A G3 or G4 attack allows Germany the maximum build up time before Russia can declare war and can make for a much stronger punch into Russia’s borders all along the line. I often wait until G4 because you can hit Russia on 4 fronts (Romania > Bessarabia, Hungary > E Poland, Poland > Baltic States, Finland > Karelia) and have a very strong front line after the battles - harder for Russia to counter attack. The downfall of this is that Russia also gets 3 turns of build-up so they will have more stuff for you to fight. Generally, Germany will still have more than Russia, but if the dice don’t favor you, your front lines could get really ate up by the time you reach Moscow.
A lot depends on what USA does when they get into the war. If they go 80%-100% Europe, your Russian offensive could peter out fast because you have to fend off an American invasion or try to bail out Italy. On the other hand, Japan should be doing very well in the Pacific and you may get an overall Axis win that way.
If USA goes mostly Pacific, then you should be very successful in Russia. The UK will be busy trying to fight Italy and your U-Boats while you pour tanks into Russia and steadily grind them back. However, If Japan plays poorly, it’s possible the USA could wrap things up in the Pacific early enough to still come over and cause trouble for you in Europe before you can take Moscow. Then it’s the dreaded TWO FRONT WAR for Germany.
The key to (killing) Russia's heart is in Nenetsia, 2.0
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Interesting idea. But i wonder what the effect of the (i admit, temporary) absence of all those japanese planes in Asia will be
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The latter mod is much better - additional tanks for backup from a major IC in Norway is a gr8 idea. Using it for possible sealion could work. I’d imagine the UK navy might be a bit stronger by the time moscow falls, and the japanese could be in a slightly precarious position after losing their airforce “softening” up moscow.
The psychology/bluffing of players can b a v impt part of the game, but it’s more of a gamble than the dice sometimes. The ploy of falling back from the russian front may look highly suspicious or may look exactly like a pre-sealion move.
I’d b v v curious to see how the allies respond to this, particularly in a multiplayer game of 4-5 players. 1 ally may easily miss the possible moves, but i’ve found in my overall A&A experience that u just need 1 of a few opponents to get suspicious and the bluffs get v difficult ;-(The major IC in Norway may solve multiple problems with this and other strategies - Norway is more defendable generally, and with a decent navy to protect them, a few transports can continuously dump backup/expeditions into northern russia. Having the ability to strike beyond the conventional Eastern front may distract the USSR considerably.
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Great strategy. An added consideration is the fact that Japan can strategically bomb Moscow on J3 with 4 bombers, landing them in Nenetsia.
I would be less worried about the Moscow stack and more worried about what’s in Leningrad. Unless a G4 Moscow strike is possible, the Leningrad stack can move to Archangel and force a showdown. You do have the advantage though, in that worst case scenario, comes to worse, Leningrad should be the consolation prize.
I think you can afford even less commitment from Japan. Getting that tank with a mech or two + the airfield in Chadar should be sufficient.
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It’s an interesting strat, but still doesn’t address the US devouring Italy, and then grinding Germany into the dust in a couple more turns.
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@SalothSar:
I always build a destroyer on R1 and put it in Sz 125 R2 to protect the Russian NO. So unless you declare war on the Soviets G2 your not going anywhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Such a grand plan<> so easy to stop!
Russia only gets that NO if at war with germany or Italy
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Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one
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Looks like some members here are unbalanced :-)
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Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one
LOL.
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@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
Germans attack Z125 with sub plus massive airforce, killing it and cancelling NO.
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@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
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@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!
IF (note this first word) you waste nearly a round of income to buy ships, even before any sign of this “masterplan”. Sounds better to me to buy 8 inf instead and move another 8 to in Nenetsia ASAP. At least those will later be useful.
I might consider 1 DD turn 1 though.Edit: Might make more sense to put some INF and ART in Archangel, and some mech/tanks within a 2 zone reach of nenetsia. That way, when Germany gets there, you have the chance to kick them out. If you retake it, Japan’s planes won’t be landing anywhere.
If they manage to get Nene ànd land planes, it’ll be Russia’s job (playing inbetween Germany and Japan) to try to take advantage of the moment both axis troops split up.
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@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!
No, it is not easily stopped. To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1. What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!! Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!
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@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!
No, it is not easily stopped. To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1. What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!! Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!
Easily stopped
No, NOT easily stopped. Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like: “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway. You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.
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Salothstar, unless you have great spies, you can’t know what your opponents are gonna do. Not on time.
So you’re gonna buy 3 DD’s every game when Germany buys fleet?
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No, NOT easily stopped. Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like: “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway. You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.
That was my entire point about suggesting this strategy. Sealion is ALWAYS an option. If Russia is soooooooooooooo concerned about Germany pulling this off because it bought a carrier and two transports on G1, go ahead and buy the destroyers. Germany can still do a G3/G4 Sealion and then have fewer Russian ground units to deal with afterwards. This was never designed to be a strategy that you are monolithically locked into doing. It is something I wanted other players to be aware of in case Russia gets too big in its britches and pulls too many units away from Moscow or bought too many high priced units and thus have a unit deficiency.
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i’ve been following this post since it started and i thought of offering this:
if Germany waits to attack til G4 then japan won’t need an airbase to help out. by J3, Japan can land their planes in Suiyuyan and still clear vologda for germany and possibly use bombers to help clear out Russia.
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Gimmick win, if at all, with a proper Russian palyer IPM will win.
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IPM?
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IPM?
Another example of why this game will never be won, except in lucky situations, by gimmick moves that either “win” the game in 3-5 rounds or in the first round. Its called Infantry Push Mechanic and it has won every game that its used in. Read the boards of some of the other games to find out the details.
Even if you take Moscow for one turn,unlikely but possible, you have no supply line that is worth it to back it up. Your victory is only won for a round and then Germany is a hollow tiger, and so is Japan. You have hamstrung both major Axis powers to do this. No Atlantic wall, no reactionary force, no win. Not with sane allied builds and a strategic outlook.
I just played at a Convention and my team (of course we have played extensively together) would have won based on IPM, the constant supply of fodder without the loss of high powered units. The other team conceded, but it was a given with time considering their waste of high powered units…
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So, in other words, you’d rather play a game down to the lowest common denominator, infantry stacks, as standard a play as humanly possible, with no attempt at bluffing or subterfuge or camouflage? Wow, with the Axis having a net disadvantage against the +30 NO of the US from Round 4 on, you think having the Axis JOIN FORCES to take over Moscow by G5 is a bad idea? (And actually, the tank/air stacks combine on J3/G4!) 20 Jap planes and 16 German tanks thrown into the Soviet rear is absolutely nothing to worry about, according to IPM, right? (Oh wait, that’s ~320+ IPCs (with possibly MORE incoming each round from German transports off Norway OR more planes dumped into Chahar’s airbase) dropped into the Soviet rear… Russia’s $37 a turn is going to take care of it! YEAH…)
This is one of the best strategies I’ve seen yet, as there’s NO WAY the Japs can help out the Italians in the Med in any reasonable amount of time (which was often the case in AA50), and usually NO WAY to get Japanese and German stacks simultaneously sitting against Moscow (unless the Allies have really bobbled the ball and the game is obvious). This strategy ENSURES that the Soviets will be forced to consolidate around their capital, and no matter what they do, it may still not be enough, if the Jap player uses his planes suicidally to open a hole for the Germans. ITALIAN CAN OPENERS ARE A JOKE COMPARED TO THIS.
Plus, even if the seizure of Moscow IS temporary, it throws the Soviets into disarray for several rounds, they lose a turn of production, and Axis forces can run rampant all over while they retake the capital. I assure you that the Soviets dropping the ball, even for a short period of time, in this version of AA with even greater distances and number of territories, usually means they’re going to keel over, as each map (Europe and Pacific) pretty much plays on its own.
ALSO, the best part about this strategy is that there is no real commitment until Germany 2, when you build the 5 TRN and the Major IC; you can always just call it off or go for Sealion (or just go for Sealion anyway on G3, if it looks favorable).
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