Interesting Marc. Thanks.
Fav WW2 battle of study
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Velcomin,Herr Mitchell,
I like all of them.
Re: Pearl Harbour - I will always point out the stupidity of the Japanese Command for not destroying the oil storage and refinery facilities of the Hawaiian islands as it would have set the US supply line back 2,000 miles.
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“Turn of the water sprinkler the party’s over.” - Correct and identify that Quote. -
The Japanese should’ve hit the repair facilities and oil storage tanks, which probably would’ve gave the Japanese several more months for operations. However, the Japanese gave up their attack after the second wave met American resistence. IMO, they should’ve pressed their advantage as there was nothing else that the Americans couldn’ve done about it. Even if the US’s AC task force out in manuevers and unloading duties were to arrive, they probably still would’ve been defeat.
North Africa is another campaign that deserves a case study by its own, at least until after the battle of El Alemin (sp).
If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, thumbing my nose at You Know Who. - Bokonon
[ This Message was edited by: TG Moses VI on 2002-06-13 20:16 ]
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Yeah, the Japanese should have captured Honolulu, it would have set back the lines in the Pacific, given the Japanese another fortified island, and it would have kept the Americans from repairing/salvaging many of the boats and planes. And of course using the ones missed by the attack.
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i’m curius to know every one’s faverite world war 2 battle of study. thats batles that you like reading about, watching movies about and understanding the stratagy behind.
my favs are Operation Market Garden and The battle of Ortona.
Stalingrad is the most interesting. The Italian campaign too. Kursk, the air war…Invasion of russia…its all good.
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Yeah, I forgot to mention the Italian Campaign. This is a sure read! I love reading about the Germans (many of elite Fallschrimjager) desperate attempts to hold the Americans (elite units too like the Devil’s Brigade), UK, and Canada’s overwhelming supply of manpower. The Hitler Line, Monte Cassino, Anzio, Rome, house to house fighting… all great actions worth mentioning.
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The Hitler Line, Monte Cassino, Anzio, Rome, house to house fighting… all great actions worth mentioning.
you forgot Ortona
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Yep, we have to give those Canadian Soldiers their due. 8)
But I’m forgetting a lot of other major engagements, Gustav Line, Operation ‘Husky’, Operation ‘Baytown’, Operation ‘Slapstick’, Operation ‘Avalanche’… the list goes on and on.
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The Japanese should have captured Honolulu. It would have been more interesting than simply bombing.
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Personally, I don’t think capturing Hawaii would have been that much of a thing for the Japanese even though they could have definetely pulled it off if they tried. Other than the naval base there, Hawaii isn’t an important strategic target unless of course they wanted to invade America itself…
It was a much better target as a air raid that way they wouldn’t need to garrison it against a much closer American mainland and they can still destroy the American fleet. Now if only Nagumo had ordered a third wave for attacking the sub pens and supplies…
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@Captain:
Personally, I don’t think capturing Hawaii would have been that much of a thing for the Japanese even though they could have definetely pulled it off if they tried. Other than the naval base there, Hawaii isn’t an important strategic target unless of course they wanted to invade America itself…
It was a much better target as a air raid that way they wouldn’t need to garrison it against a much closer American mainland and they can still destroy the American fleet. Now if only Nagumo had ordered a third wave for attacking the sub pens and supplies…
true.
“I love reading about the Germans (many of elite Fallschrimjager) desperate attempts to hold the Americans (elite units too like the Devil’s Brigade), UK, and Canada’s overwhelming supply of manpower. The Hitler Line, Monte Cassino, Anzio, Rome, house to house fighting… all great actions worth mentioning.”
Yes…something about the Germans with a fighting chance…I by no means like what the Nazis did, but I am very interested in how the Germans could of won…but I always cheered for the bad guy since Wild E. Coyote…
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Well much of the Italian Campaign is still taught in military schools today. It was the perfect example of the outgunned, and outnumbered defender using every bit of mountainous topography, weather, logistics, urban defense to his advantage. Kesslering (sp) was a genius militarily for his ability to sustain retreat and reform defensive lines, something that Hitler actually let him do! People forget how close the Salerno landings came close to utter failure.
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Well holding the Island would tie up the Americans for a long, long time, buying the Japaneese time to attack India and China.
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Well holding the Island would tie up the Americans for a long, long time, buying the Japaneese time to attack India and China.
you could hold the island for 2 days…your shipping would be way over stretched.
Yes, Kesselring was a genious…i think we talked about that somewhere earler.
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True, but the Japanese managed to take and hold Wake Island. Distance wise, it isn’t that much further than Midway (which the Japs also intended to hold). But by taking Pearl Harbor, the Japanese would have access to valuable repair and oil storage facilities (something that the second wave should’ve targeted). Also I’m not sure America’s Naval might could repel the Japanese task force.
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@TG:
True, but the Japanese managed to take and hold Wake Island. Distance wise, it isn’t that much further than Midway (which the Japs also intended to hold). But by taking Pearl Harbor, the Japanese would have access to valuable repair and oil storage facilities (something that the second wave should’ve targeted). Also I’m not sure America’s Naval might could repel the Japanese task force.
Wake island was defended by people with world war one uniforms! it was easy to take. Japan couldn’t leave their fleet at Hawaii forever, and the moment some of it leaves, what is left from the American navy, and airforce planes transfered from the continental US would blow japan away…they wouldn’t have that home field advantage.
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Hey, hey! Don’t diss Wake Island defenders! They gave it their all against overwhelming Japanese attacks. Also, they were pretty well equiped (well for a surprise attack at least) with 5-inch naval guns, Wildcat Fighters, M1’s, Lewis Machine guns, Thomsons SMG, and WW1 Uniforms like you said. As for Pearl Harbor, I wouldn’t of held on to it anymore than I needed to. You’re right, Japanese lines were overstretched. But anything is better than calling quits after 2 waves of attackers. Personally, if I were leading, I woul’ve pounded the island with everything and maybe even forced the American carriers into a decisive Naval engagement.
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you’re right. You would figure that after taking out the American fleet you would then pound the docks and stuff so they would be unusable…
but i think the japanese anticipated the Americans fighting back…we wanted it to happen.
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“but i think the japanese anticipated the Americans fighting back…we wanted it to happen.”
Whoa, not sure you can say we wanted this to happen! But the Americans did fight back after the second raid. But still, the Japanese should’ve pressed the 2nd and another 3rd raid. Beside AA and assorted small arms fire, there wasn’t much we could do about it. Hickman Field (think that was what it was called) was in bombed out ruins and what American planes (mostly outdated) rose to intercept were quickly shot down by Zeros. Classic case of the Civil War on side of the damned Yankees. Even though the Confederates were beaten, Lee’s army should’ve been persued and utterly destroyed at the end of the battle – not able to retreat and fight another day.
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It motivated America and got us jout of that depression that FDR worsened with his tax policies.
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And you don’t think that a staunchly American counterattack (ie being prepared for Pearl Harbor when it happen) would’ve served the same purpose? It’s true that it brought us out of the Depression, but many people forget about the early months of post-December 1941 when just about everything went wrong for the Americans and the Allies in general. People were genuinely afraid of the worst. In many areas, morale plummeted (like in parts of the West Coast) and in some, people panicked. I think that if the Japanese were defeated (or at least hotly contested) at Pearl Harbor, it would’ve aroused the American public into a fighting spirit even more.
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