Sub question

[allweneedislove]

here is the scenario
japan has a sub in sz1
usa combat moves 2 battleships into sz1
japan submerges the sub in sz1
usa wants to non-combat move a destroyer into sz1

can a player non-combat move a destroyer into a sea zone in which there is a submerged enemy sub?

[kcdzim]

@allweneedislove:

here is the scenario
japan has a sub in sz1
usa combat moves 2 battleships into sz1
japan submerges the sub in sz1
usa wants to non-combat move a destroyer into sz1

can a player non-combat move a destroyer into a sea zone in which there is a submerged enemy sub?

Yes.  Subs NEVER block movement, combat or noncombat.  You can choose to ignore both subs and transports in combat and noncombat moves, unless an enemy surface warship (carrier, destroyer, cruiser, battleship) is also present with them

[allweneedislove]

@kcdzim:

Subs NEVER block movement, combat or noncombat.

thanks for the reply kcdzim.
i am still a little confused as i thought that destroyers negated all of the subs special abilities.

does the “Does not block enemy movement” from the rulebook not count as one of subs special abilities?

[livpj11]

It doesn’t count if a destroyer is present to cancel out all the special abilities subs possess.

[Krieghund]

@allweneedislove:

i am still a little confused as i thought that destroyers negated all of the subs special abilities.

does the “Does not block enemy movement” from the rulebook not count as one of subs special abilities?

Destroyers don’t cancel all sub unit characteristics.  Treat Hostile Sea Zones as Friendly, Surprise Strike, Submersible and Cannot Be Hit by Air Units are cancelled, but On Station, Does Not Block Enemy Movement and Cannot Hit Air Units are unaffected.

[allweneedislove]

@Krieghund:

@allweneedislove:

i am still a little confused as i thought that destroyers negated all of the subs special abilities.

does the “Does not block enemy movement” from the rulebook not count as one of subs special abilities?

Destroyers don’t cancel all sub unit characteristics.  Treat Hostile Sea Zones as Friendly, Surprise Strike, Submersible and Cannot Be Hit by Air Units are cancelled, but On Station, Does Not Block Enemy Movement and Cannot Hit Air Units are unaffected.

thanks for the easy to understand explanation kreighund.
very quick with the response aswell

[Hellmet]

Here’s a question for a similar situation:

The US has a fleet in SZ6 that includes a sub (no Japanese sea units).  Japan attacks the US fleet with planes only and the sub submerges.  Japan wins the battle.  Japan’s purchased units include 3 destroyers that are placed in SZ6 with the ‘submerged sub.’  On the ensuing US turn, what are the options for the sub?  The Rules, in the Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones section do not address subs and transports.  We play the following:

On the US turn the following options are available:

1.  Stay and let Japan attack on their next conduct combat turn if they so choose, or
2.  Move to another SZ, or
3.  Attack the destroyers.

Is that correct???
Thanks!

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Hellmet:

Here’s a question for a similar situation:

The US has a fleet in SZ6 that includes a sub (no Japanese sea units).  Japan attacks the US fleet with planes only and the sub submerges.  Japan wins the battle.  Japan’s purchased units include 3 destroyers that are placed in SZ6 with the ‘submerged sub.’  On the ensuing US turn, what are the options for the sub?  The Rules, in the Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones section do not address subs and transports.  We play the following:

On the US turn the following options are available:

1.  Stay and let Japan attack on their next conduct combat turn if they so choose, or
2.  Move to another SZ, or
3.  Attack the destroyers.

Is that correct???
Thanks!

If they stay, they have to fight the DD’s since the DD’s prevent them from submerging and escaping combat

[Krieghund]

Calvinhobbesliker is right.  The rules for starting in hostile sea zones don’t specifically address subs and transports because they have the same choices as other units do - fight or flee.  Of course, for transports choosing to fight is suicidal.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Krieghund:

Calvinhobbesliker is right.  The rules for starting in hostile sea zones don’t specifically address subs and transports because they have the same choices as other units do - fight or flee.  Of course, for transports choosing to fight is suicidal.

If you move a sub into a SZ with 2 transports, are you allowed to just kill 1 and retreat the sub?

[Hellmet]

Thanks all for the quick answers!!  Just a point of clarity, I assume that the sub must fight or flee on HIS (the US) combat turn and NOT Japan’s.

[Krieghund]

@calvinhobbesliker:

If you move a sub into a SZ with 2 transports, are you allowed to just kill 1 and retreat the sub?

No.  They are both automatically destroyed.

@Hellmet:

Thanks all for the quick answers!!  Just a point of clarity, I assume that the sub must fight or flee on HIS (the US) combat turn and NOT Japan’s.

Of course.