Strategic B R - an anti-aircraft gun destroys immediately or not?


  • Rules:

    Page 8 : « For each “1” that is rolled, one plane is shot down and immediately removed »

    Page 15 : « A. The defending player fires his AA gun by rolling one die against each attacking aircraft (bombers and any fighter escorts). Each roll of “1” scores a hit and the number of hits is noted. »

    For a Strategic Bombing Raid, f I understand correctly, an anti-aircraft gun has the same effect as an ordinary unit that sends enemy units into casualties instead of immediately removing them from the game?

    I have another general question for attacks. (Should I make another post for this?)

    Why does it always say that the defender should note the losses instead of sending them immediately to the casualties? When I played with my nephew, every time we shot an enemy unit, we put it in the casualty area, outside the battle board opposite his column, and the defender would then fire back with it one last time on the counterattack and that’s it.


  • @largowin said in Strategic B R - an anti-aircraft gun destroys immediately or not?:

    Rules:

    Page 8 : « For each “1” that is rolled, one plane is shot down and immediately removed »

    Page 15 : « A. The defending player fires his AA gun by rolling one die against each attacking aircraft (bombers and any fighter escorts). Each roll of “1” scores a hit and the number of hits is noted. »

    For a Strategic Bombing Raid, f I understand correctly, an anti-aircraft gun has the same effect as an ordinary unit that sends enemy units into casualties instead of immediately removing them from the game?

    The rule you quoted on page 8 refers to AA guns in normal attacks. In such case, the casualties are removed immediately.

    It works differently in Strategic Bombing Raids, as reflected in the rule on page 15. In that case, the attacker’s casualties (the escorting fighters, anyway) still get to fire against the defending fighters before being removed. However, the attacking bombers are removed before they can attack the Industrial Complex.

    I have another general question for attacks. (Should I make another post for this?)

    Why does it always say that the defender should note the losses instead of sending them immediately to the casualties? When I played with my nephew, every time we shot an enemy unit, we put it in the casualty area, outside the battle board opposite his column, and the defender would then fire back with it one last time on the counterattack and that’s it.

    I’m not sure what you mean. The only place I can find that casualties are “noted” rather than moved to the Casualties area is during Strategic Bombing Raids, and that’s because the battle board is not used.


  • @krieghund
    To summarize if I understood correctly, for example:
    I attack an industrial complex with 1 bomber and 1 fighter.
    The defender also has 1 fighter, and has an AA
    The AA first draws 2 dice, one for each of my planes, and makes a hit.
    I can choose my fighter as a casualty, but instead of taking it out of play as usual, I put it in the casualties
    After that, I roll for my fighter and make a hit
    The defender moves his fighter to the casualties.
    I remove my fighter.
    I then roll a die for my bomber and collect the number of CPI from the die
    The defender shoots at my bomber

    For ma question 2

    I was a little misled by “note” because I was in a section that talked about it, but it still sounds a little like what I wanted to talk about.
    My question is: why not put the casualties in the casualties area one by one right away (because in those 4 places, it still says « After ALL hits »?

    page 9
    « After all hits (if any) are scored, the defender chooses which of his units will be casualties and moves them to the Casualties area on the battle board
    After all hits are scored by the defender, the original attacker must remove that many units (original attacker’s choice) from the battle board and place them out of play.

    page 10
    « After all hits are scored by the defender, the original attacker must remove that many of his units (attacker’s choice) from the battle board and place them out of play. »
    « After all hits are scored (if any), the defender chooses which of his units are casualties and moves them to the Casualties area on the battle board. »


  • @largowin Your summary of a Strategic Bombing Raid, is correct, except for one detail. The defender rolls for his fighter before you roll for yours. So, your corrected example would be:
    The AA rolls and gets 1 hit.
    The defending fighter rolls and misses.
    The attacking fighter rolls and hits, and the defender removes their fighter.
    The attacker removes casualties (the fighter).
    The attacking bomber rolls for damage against the Industrial Complex.

    Regarding question 2, the hits are accumulated so that each side may choose casualties after knowing the total number of hits inflicted.


  • @krieghund
    Basically, removing all the casualties allows us to have a more global view of the situation, but nothing prevents us from removing them one at a time, for battles involving very few units for example. Many thanks for your help, it is really appreciated.


  • @krieghund
    Uh… What about these rules? It seems to say that the fighter is out of the game after the AA shot, because in the other paragraph it says that the German player responds with his REMAINING fighter

    Page 16
    First, the British player fires the AA gun. Three dice are rolled, one for each plane, resulting in a “1,” a “3,” and a “4.” The AA gun scored one hit and Germany sacrifices fighter A.

    Next, the British player sends up a fighter in Great Britain. A “2” is rolled – another hit. The German player responds with his remaining fighter and rolls a “3.” This would normally hit, but in a SBR, fighters only attack with a “1.” (They defend with a “2.”) The German player chooses fighter B as the casualty.

  • Official Q&A

    @largowin Oh, yeah. I forgot this mystery is cleared up in the FAQ (it’s been quite a while for this one for me):

    Q. When the defending player gets a hit with his AA gun against a Strategic Bombing Raid, are the lost units removed immediately or do they have a chance to return fire at defending fighters?
    A. As the rule is written, if the hit is placed on an escorting fighter, the fighter gets to shoot at defending fighters before it’s removed. If the hit is placed on a bomber, the bomber is shot down before it gets to drop its bombs.

    HOWEVER, this is an error in the sequence of play which contradicts the rules on anti-aircraft guns. The correct sequence was published in Axis & Allies: Pacific and it should be used in both games. In other words, any attacking planes that are shot down by AA get no opportunity to attack, regardless of whether they were lost during an SBR or a regular combat.

    So, attacker casualties from AA fire are removed immediately, but attacker (fighter) casualties from fighters get to shoot back. Bomber casualties from either do not get to attack.


  • @krieghund : +1: Ok, thx again for your help. Unfortunately, there are a lot of mistakes in all versions of this game. So, it’s really not easy to translate the book rules in french.

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