I actually really like The Beast. Great film!
Russian Mother Pleads for Son to Stay in Guantanamo Bay
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sorry TG. Im on summer break right now, so im not really making an effort to discern between paragraphs. :wink:
I would say generally though, the nicer the living conditions, the easier it is to escape. i dont support inhumane conditions in prisons either, but i think the difference is what each of us would consider inhumane.
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True. But from my knowledge a boxed in prison (with barb wire and guard towers) does not necessitate inhumane conditions. It’s that treatment inside the prison that matters.
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I know, I was talking about worse than boxed in and barbed wire. What some would call inhumane, actually, probably more than some, I would consider acceptable for a prison.
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Yes… but how do those inhumane conditions make it easier for the prisoner to escape?
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you misunderstand, the better the conditions, thus, the more humane, the easier it is to escape. the inhumane conditions are usually in prisons with very few, if any escapes.
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I guess I am missing something here…
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Perhaps the theory is that if the guards have to work at making things tough for the prisoners they’ll be more alert so it’s harder to escape whereas at a “nicer” facility they’ll be more relaxed so it’s easier for an alert prisoner to escape.
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thats part of it. but also the nicer a facility, aside from the guards, its generally easier to escape. the security measures are usually not as tight, and prisoners have more freedom, more access to things, etc. They also have the will to escape. in a harsher facility, many people are broken by the experience, and dont have the will to plan or execute an escape.
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Or the fact that the harsher conditions make them want to escape even more. And where would the terrorist have to go? Not very many German prisoners escaped during WWII from US pow camps.
But really, there has to be some way a prison can be human yet with extra secruity? No
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true, they may want to escape even more, but look at alcatraz again. nobody ever escaped alive. though im sure the majority of people in their wanted to.
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But the fact of the matter is that at Alcatraz, those are convicted men (usually of high crimes). At Guantanamo those men have yet to be tried.
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merely giving an example
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I see that… but sometimes it can be misleading… ;)
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Well, i think the point why noone escaped alive from Alcatraz is not that it was harsh or nice. It is a bloody rock surrounded by bloody water. You could give the people inside Playstations, beer and pool billard…. it would not change their chances to escape.
Janus, i think you are mixing up correlation and cause.
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F_alk,
in the US we have two terms which are often exchanged by mistake.Jail is where the accused are held. It is also a term used for local small town lock-ups(Mayberry, The Andy Griffith Show[late 1950’s - early 1960’s]).
Prison is where the convicts serve their time, after being found guilty by a judge or a jury of their peers(Uh-oh! I sense another argument in the offing.)
NOTE : One prisoner is believed to have escaped from Alcatraz. Books have been written. Clint Eastwood played the part…
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@F_alk:
Well, i think the point why noone escaped alive from Alcatraz is not that it was harsh or nice. It is a bloody rock surrounded by bloody water. You could give the people inside Playstations, beer and pool billard…. it would not change their chances to escape.
Janus, i think you are mixing up correlation and cause.
beer . . . the GREATEST escape :D
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Well, i think the point why noone escaped alive from Alcatraz is not that it was harsh or nice. It is a bloody rock surrounded by bloody water. You could give the people inside Playstations, beer and pool billard…. it would not change their chances to escape.
Janus, i think you are mixing up correlation and cause.
No, Falk, Im not. If you put them on the island without such harsh conditions (visit the prison, and youll see the security was pretty damn tight. even still, I would argue that it could stand to be much harsher) they could escape. It is an island, obviously to contribute to the difficulty of escape, but you can swim from their to shore if you are in decent shape, and many people in prison are physically fit.
Take for example, that prison I mentioned earlier in French Guiana. There were prisons on islands, but the main facility was on the mainland. There were extremely harsh conditions there, particularly in solitary, like i mentioned, and there were almost no escapes. The one guy who was reported to have escaped (Papillon, he wrote a book), only managed to because of the apathetic guards.
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Ummm . . . Janus,
Even if you were the greatest swimmer ever, and you managed to escape somehow, and swam to shore, don’t you think you’d get picked up pretty quick, if you weren’t shot in the water? -
thus…my point. its not the fact that you are on an island that makes it impossible to escape
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Actually, Janus is right, there were a few breaks from Alcatraz. They made it into the water, but were never caught.
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