Reading list

[Guest]

@yourbuttocks:

Higher math is so useless.

I still believe Newton invented Calculus simply to feel superior to everyone else.

Well, it was Newton and Leibniz who invented it, and they did it because it was time for it. To solve many of the problems they had, they just needed it.

@yourbuttocks:

Calculus doesn’t apply to economics, does it? If it does, please give me an example because I don’t understand.

Ok, very simple:
A product has a linearly rising “cost”-function (of produced items), and a quadratically declining “asset”-function (of sold items)… which is the best
number to be produced and at what price will they be sold?
True, the calculus you need is not that hard for economy… unless you go into macroeconomics, there it gets interesting (but still not enough understood with oversimplified models)… but for an MBA i do not see that you need more than a bit of calculus, some common sense, and the ability to talk of simple things in a very complicated way, so that others think it is some kind of “science”…

Is Calculus going to help me land a new account? Is it going to help me play trivial pursuit? Is it going to help me construct a good argument, or help me keep track of my time, or help me give a speech? Or is it going to help me in Calculus class and Physics class…

It is not helping you with a new account; it can help you win trivial pursuit if the right questions come up; it will help you in an argument, as it trains your logic; it can help you plan your time; it won’t necessarily help you with a speech; but it will help you in any math or science class.
Plus: You need to understand the concept of exponential growth to be a successful manager…. especially that exponential growth cannot be sustained… if you see that contradiction (which your shareholders don’t see), you also see how to blind them and tell them what they want to hear without letting them interfere with what has to be done :) :)

[cystic crypt]

Brilliantly put F_alk.
When i was in sales i used calculus (loosely) to determine rates of growth, changes in rates of growth, etc. and applied that knowledge etc. in discussions with my boss over why i deserved a raise. Of course this did not “require” calculus, however it did help hone my mind to looking at these things in this way.
The thing is, one can look at chemistry and physics the same way. I felt bad for a woman who did not go into medicine as she was allergic to the materials in the chem lab. Why is this a factor? What do i need to know about basic intro chem and physics for medicine? Well, a little bit - pH’s and haemodynamics, etc. But these may be taught without the use of these tedious courses no? The thing is these allow one to study/learn more advanced sciences - biochemistry etc. So although not everyone will find calculus useful in everyday life, it is handy for advancing in university to more advanced physics courses (as well as engineering) which would grossly affect your ability to, say, get a job with a nice pay scale . . . . :D

[TG Moses VI]

In the beginning these diff Eq. are pretty simple, but you can think of much more complex forms that will come later. In the start you will differentiate some functions (which are very simple diff equations), later you will have equations with functions as “variables”, and these functions themselves can be of more than one variable… then it gets a bit nasty, but at some stage you will notice that there is a nice “receipe” to solve many of them.
The importance of the exponential function will then be stressed, as it is part of most solutions to Diff Equations.

Yes, we covered that in class. For me differential functions were not too difficult. I have always been good with numbers and manipulating data. For example, algebra was a breeze, but geometry… not so easy. Plus, you’re right - there are plenty of shortcuts that can save you plenty of time provided you know them.

Ok, very simple:
A product has a linearly rising “cost”-function (of produced items), and a quadratically declining “asset”-function (of sold items)… which is the best
number to be produced and at what price will they be sold?

Funny… microeconomics was not that hard for me.

So although not everyone will find calculus useful in everyday life, it is handy for advancing in university to more advanced physics courses (as well as engineering) which would grossly affect your ability to, say, get a job with a nice pay scale . . .

Yes, not for the average joe, but every university student should know it.

Calculus doesn’t apply to economics, does it? If it does, please give me an example because I don’t understand.

Calc can become a very useful tool once you get into more complex aggregate supply and demand. Calc can be very useful when you get in partial derivatives and marginal analysis (often with more than one variable).

[Guest]

Back to the reasing list:

anything of Sebastian Haffner

[FinsterniS]

Falk, what the hell are diferential equations?

it was me

and shortly; it explain how a rate of change in one variable is related to other variables. And integration is the opposite (not exactly but it’s the main concept).

Serioulys YB, to know how at least the fondation of Integration/Derivation can be quite usefull in… well… most domains; sociology, physics, economy, engineering, mathematic (woooo). Sure i doupt you’ll have to solve partial derivates in your daily life but still, like Falk said it trained logic, most people will never use even algebra in their life. Before Liouville/Poincaré most mathematician believe we could explain all the world, a big modelisation as you can see, with differential equation.

Higher math is so useless.

For who ?

I still believe Newton invented Calculus simply to feel superior to everyone else.

Don’t forgert Leibniz. The fathers of calculus are Newton AND Leibniz.

[TG Moses VI]

it was me

Some people are not so bright… :-?

[yourbuttocks]

I figured that both Falk and Fisternis would know about Calc so because Falk posted more often I asked him.

THanks for the answers. RIght now I am taking trigonometry in order to prepare for Calculus.

[dIfrenT]

Umm, weird. I usually read these things to forget about school, and here my AP Calc class is haunting me. I feel a headache coming on. Since we know who invented it, I say we figure out how to make a time machine (which we’d probably need calc for), go back in time, and kill the inventors. What say? OK, OK. I guess the stuff isn’t so bad when you get used to it. Believe me YB, if you intend to do any science/math (of course) related field, you’d better get used to it. I’m going to major in chemistry or biochem. I hate the trig that’s used in calc, sorry about that YB, but I think trig’s the hardest. Learn it now. Differential equations are anywhere from tolerable to fun. I used to LOVE math (as in go home and do math problems to relax - until H. Pre-calculus). Sad, huh? I had no life. Fortunately, I’ve branched out.

About the reading list.
I had to read Animal Farm, and I almost had to read 1984 this year. We had to read Great Expectations. I hate that book with a passion. I only read half of it (but the teacher explained it so well in class that I got like a 96% on the test). Ummm, Pride and Prejudice was very good. Not just the romance, but the interpretations you can get from it. I’m in AP English, so we have to tear the book apart piece by piece and write practice timed-writes (for the AP test).
My favorites were Heart of Darkness, and Crime and Punishment.
Ones I could have done without are any books by Charles Dickens, Romeo and Juliet (that is just so incredibly OLD and ground into the dirt), and The Great Gatsby.
I did kind of like The Old Man and the Sea. It was sad to “see” an old man devastated like that.
I’ll be reading Jane Eyre next. I hope it’s good.

[TG Moses VI]

I did kind of like The Old Man and the Sea. It was sad to “see” an old man devastated like that.

I’m not sure you understood the story’s ending then…

Ones I could have done without are any books by Charles Dickens, Romeo and Juliet (that is just so incredibly OLD and ground into the dirt), and The Great Gatsby.

I couldn’t agree more :lol:

My favorites were Heart of Darkness, and Crime and Punishment

Yes, both are good books.

had to read Animal Farm, and I almost had to read 1984 this year. We had to read Great Expectations.

THe only one I like out of the three is 1984. :)

[Yanny]

1984 is really a great book. You should read it, school or not.

[yourbuttocks]

I am reading Brave New WOrld. It is actually kind of simliar to 1984, they both involve destroying the family one way or the other.

We should start a book group. Pick a book, then like two weeks later start discussing it.

[Guest]

@yourbuttocks:

I am reading Brave New WOrld. It is actually kind of simliar to 1984, they both involve destroying the family one way or the other.

We should start a book group. Pick a book, then like two weeks later start discussing it.

the book group sounds good…

but i don’t agree that the main similarity between BNW and 1984 is that both involve destroying the family… i think they both include models for an authoritarian systems, 1984 using the “brute force” method, BNW the “opium for the people” method, plus manipulation of the people before they are born. With this, BNW to me seems much more “realistic”, as these two threats have not vanished, but still could easily be implemented in our world (and they are implemented already to a degree, which makes me shiver)

[yourbuttocks]

I think that breaking up the family is critical to controling the population in both books. Family gives people loyalties other than to the state, encourages independent think…

[Yanny]

I think the main connection between the two books is complete domination of power. There is no real competition between nations, no power struggle, in either book. Sure, there was an endless world war going on in 1984, but no nation was strong enough to defeat another. Nations were free to do what they wanted.

In Brave New World, I don’t remember any competition, no other nations. But I read that a few years ago.

My point is, the books show us why we do not want one nation to rule the world.

Oh, and both nations show how Education can be a weapon. People were segregated and educated by blood type in Brave New World. The common people, the Proles, were not nearly as regulated as the party members. Instead, they were left, blinded by ignorance.

Were the Proles to revolt, the Governments could not last.

[Guest]

@Yanny:

I think the main connection between the two books is complete domination of power.
There is no real competition between nations, no power struggle, in either book. Sure, there was an endless world war going on in 1984, but no nation was strong enough to defeat another. Nations were free to do what they wanted.

@yourbuttocks:

I think that breaking up the family is critical to controling the population in both books. Family gives people loyalties other than to the state, encourages independent think…

I see your points and must admit, i didn’t think that much about them.
I still think that the internation relations are not that important in the books, not at all mentioned in BNW… they play a role as a tool of suppression in 1984 though.
The role of the families is interesting, especially in BNW. You can see that there is one family… and it would be interesting to analyze it… have to read the book again soon i guess.

@Yanny:

In Brave New World, I don’t remember any competition, no other nations.

There is this “outside”, the barbarians…. but that is all.

Oh, and both nations show how Education can be a weapon. People were segregated and educated by blood type in Brave New World. The common people, the Proles, were not nearly as regulated as the party members. Instead, they were left, blinded by ignorance.

Were the Proles to revolt, the Governments could not last.

Yup, Education is one of the major points. If you control the kids, you control the future.
For “if the Proles revolted”…. well, that was covered in the book to a large degree, why it would not happen.
Have to read 1984 as well soon again :)

[goldmoon]

I think they should read world war 2 b/c all the punk teenagers dont know anything about the war . :evil: @Yanny:

If you had to make up a list of books that you thought that High Schools students should all read, what would they be?

For me, in no real order:

The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien
The Lost World - Michael Crichton
Prey - Michael Crichton (new book, really a great read)
1984 - Geoge Orwell
When True Night Falls - C.S. Friedman

The Lost World is, in my opinion, one of the best books ever written. They ruined the movie. Definately Crichton’s best book. But his new book, Prey, comes pretty damn close to The Lost World. I read it for hours straight, I just couldn’t put it down.

When True Night Falls is a newer fantasy book thats less famous than the others. Its really a great piece of writing, and there are 2 sequels.

The Hobbit is easily Tolkien’s best book, its beautifully written, incredibly detailed, and spawned a legion of fans and 3 great follow up books.

1984, one of my personal favorites.