not on triplea. Would be cool tho
Scaling of FMG & HBG Pieces - Please Vote!
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Rorsach, I agree with you that mechs are small, but BotB trucks? They are the same size as tanks in the game! I think you got a little confused there. The BotB trucks are significantly bigger than the 1940 mechs.
In fact, the trucks are taller than some tanks, and almost as wide…
If you compare with the pictures above, the HBG and OOB trucks are nearly as wide as the Sherman, which is not a small piece.
Compare the two (US mech vs US truck):
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Disagree completely. As of now, FMG has great pieces, and so does HBG. Only a few are badly sized, such as infantry or the absolutely huge truck.
The good news is that HBG will most likely produce a truck for Italy that is proper sized, so we will have a usable piece. It would be a shame for future sets to keep making Godzilla sized truck and elven infantry just for the sake of consistency. As it stands, if FMG changes his scale all he really has that is out of scale is the infantry, truck, and possibly armored car.
I have yet to see one person like the scale of the truck, militaryman being the exception and I don’t think even he likes it. What is the point of continuing something that the market strongly dislikes?
Also, I think that HBG’s Axis Minor soldier is in perfect scale with OOB units. His Marines are big, and FMG’s are small.
OK, look, all I’m saying is…you’re singular beef with FMG pieces seems to really be the truck - and I can’t argue with that - it’s a lot bigger than the other pieces - not as much an overall scale philosophy issue as a simple fluke/error with one piece/sculpt. As you mentioned, one can easily substitute the HBG Opel if they prefer (about the same size as the other FMG/HBG vehicles and both common).
But, c’mon…no one can argue that the FMG infantry don’t look slightly superior in quality (regardless of any size differences - they’re just cleanly made and not as “bulky” as the HBG ones appear. HBG ones are great, no doubt.
On MY game board anyway, the pieces all being small, detailed, and clean is most important - these aren’t intended to be scaled miniatures for displaying stuff or setting up massive battlefields with hex table maps - they have to fit in a relatively tiny space sometimes - so IMHO the size guides FMG chose are perfectly fine.
As I said before, I intend to fully dump my OOB pieces back into a box and use FMG/HBG and only a couple of IMO WW2 classics, so I don’t give a hang about the fact that HBG measures up to OOB infantry - OOB infantry are dead to me (haha). So, I have to choose FMG vs HBG and clear winner in my book is FMG.
Again, we all have our opinions, and I certainly don’t mean you have to do it like me - but as knp & I both agree (and I think others), what’s done is done to some extent and I’d rather have all the FMG future pieces match up with the ones already done - Italian truck consider a fluke that they can avoid going forward certainly. Their infantry should match their Italian infantry IMHO. And their fighters should match their other fighters, etc, etc…
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Everyone,
I agree that the FMG Italian Truck is WAY TOO BIG! I also agree that HBG has the BEST SCALING FORMULA for it’s units.
I would hope that FMG might change it’s “scaling formula” to the one HBG uses for their future units that haven’t been sculpted yet.
I will continue to buy everything that HBG and FMG produce. And I will be VERY THANKFUL to them both for their accomplishments in bringing these units to the marketplace for ALL of us gamers to enjoy.
But I must say, I would very much appreciate having Trucks in the proper proportion to the other units(as HBG has done). Although I bought the Giant FMG Italian Trucks I will NEVER use them. I bought them to help out FMGs sales,…and I’m mature enough to appreciate what they’ve made available to us without any major complaint. However, I would hope the FUTURE units(Trucks) that haven’t been sculpted yet would be produced in the proper proportion that EVERYONE seems to prefer.
Again, I believe both HBG and FMG have provided us with some units that we can all enjoy. There is room for improvement but I believe they deserve a LOT of THANKS. Please keep up the Good Work(and hopefully improve).
“Tall Paul”
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DFW,
My beef in the Italian set is with the truck and armored car.
However, in future sets if FMG sticks with the same 20mm scale for all pieces, I will have a problem with the Tiger I/Tiger II (they should be the bigger 22mm size of the OOB Panther & Sherman). The point of this poll is to make sure that future sets have the right scaling for our needs.
Regarding the Italian infantry, I agree they are very nice. However, the OOB infantry pieces are actually on par or better than any of the infantry pieces we have seen so far from HBG or FMG. Honestly, these are the last pieces I’d get rid of, as the quality is quite good OOB.
Look, I’m being a realist about this; at the current rate of production, FMG will be done with all the sets in about 6-7 years. Even at a generous 6 month/set timetable, it is still 3-4 years of production. I am trying to make sure that a. FMG scales properly so that his pieces are usable with what we currently have and b. in case he doesn’t complete all nations, we have pieces in usable scale.
It’s nice that all the trucks will match, and infantry - albeit not before 2015.
To sum it up, in this Italian set it was a happy coincidence that the 20mm scale that FMG chose for all his pieces coincided with the 18/20/22mm scale that HBG is using (light/med/heavy). The Carro Armato is a medium tank, and so it fits perfectly with the HBG PzIII. However, as previously discussed, the truck is huge, and will remain huge at the 20mm scale, and on the other end of the spectrum a German Tiger I or Tiger II would actually be undersized at the 20mm scale.
I’m going to be mixing and matching pieces from OOB, HBG, and FMG. So far, FMG has proven he can make great airplanes, has a great infantry sculptor (albeit his mold needs some HGH), and has some decent ships (quality & detail wise I would argue that OOB is better, but that is another story). What he is lacking is a cohesive scale in land units, and I would like to help him with that. Also, his well-documented problems in getting product to market are very troubling.
HBG, on the other hand, has shown great detail and scale in his land units, although his infantry could use some work. He has shown an ability to get product to market quickly - by my count he is releasing a set every two months, which is impressive. He has also shown a good ability to improve quality from his first set (Marines) to his second set (Axis Minors).
The way I look at it, I will use the best pieces from both HBG and FMG. For example, from the Italian set I kept the aircraft, the ships, and the tank, td, and artillery. I have no use for undersized infantry, and the truck and armored car were too big. I do know that HBG will probably produce an Italian set that will have an armored car and truck in good scale, and I will buy those whenever they come out. From HBG, I kept all the land units (especially the PzIII), the infantry with cap, and the artillery piece, leaving the FW 190 and the AT infantry out.
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Gents, I am using all different units in various scales in metal and plastic from GHQ, Heroics and Ross, Davco/Navwar, OOB, FMG, HBG and Tide of Iron. I am using Ben Steins German units to rep H Class Battleships and UK Vanguard. The Officers all are FM Rommel, SS Infantry and Regular Infantry are being used as supplemental Germans and Axis Commanders. The 88mm Flaks and multiple rocket launchers are being used by all Axis Forces.
Truck issue with the Italian FMG, Try to think of it as a heavy truck and you won’t have a problem with the scale size. Italian army of WWII had light, Medium and Heavy trucks just like all other nations including the IJA. If you spend time painting them like many of us long time AA players do, then size is negated by the massive new painted inventory of playing units.
AGAIN HBG AND FMG YOU ROCK! KEEP PRODUCING UNITS THAT AVLON HILL/WIZARDS OF THE COAST WILL NEVER CREATE!WARRIOR888
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leaving the FW 190 and the AT infantry out.
Hey reloader, I understand the AT Infantry, not crazy about them myself, but why don’t you like the Fw 190? I thought those looked pretty good.
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Gents, I am using all different units in various scales in metal and plastic from GHQ, Heroics and Ross, Davco/Navwar, OOB, FMG, HBG and Tide of Iron. I am using Ben Steins German units to rep H Class Battleships and UK Vanguard. The Officers all are FM Rommel, SS Infantry and Regular Infantry are being used as supplemental Germans and Axis Commanders. The 88mm Flaks and multiple rocket launchers are being used by all Axis Forces.
Truck issue with the Italian FMG, Try to think of it as a heavy truck and you won’t have a problem with the scale size. Italian army of WWII had light, Medium and Heavy trucks just like all other nations including the IJA. If you spend time painting them like many of us long time AA players do, then size is negated by the massive new painted inventory of playing units.
AGAIN HBG AND FMG YOU ROCK! KEEP PRODUCING UNITS THAT AVLON HILL/WIZARDS OF THE COAST WILL NEVER CREATE!WARRIOR888
Warrior can you show us a pick of a ghq tank and axis and allies tank so that we can see the relative size diffrerence? Was thinking of purchasing some tanks from ghq and wanted to know if they match up nicely with the axis and allies tanks.
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militaryman077,
I will gladly do that after I get moved into my new house. Everything is in storage. GHQ is a US company and is fairly expensive to purchase and their barrels on tanks and artillery need TLC. Heroics and Ross and Davco/Navwar are English companies in the UK. Their products have less detail but they don’t break as quickly as GHQ from rough handling. The UK companies cost less but, US Customs and shipping charges may bite you like a Great White!WARRIOR888
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militaryman077,
I will gladly do that after I get moved into my new house. Everything is in storage. GHQ is a US company and is fairly expensive to purchase and their barrels on tanks and artillery need TLC. Heroics and Ross and Davco/Navwar are English companies in the UK. Their products have less detail but they don’t break as quickly as GHQ from rough handling. The UK companies cost less but, US Customs and shipping charges may bite you like a Great White!WARRIOR888
Thanks, for the info. I guess I’ll stick with plastic pieces.
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Hey militaryman077,
I have some Panzer IIIs from GHQ and as you can see in the picture, the Axis Minors Panzer IIIs are almost exactly the same scale. I haven’t checked out any other tanks yet because the Panzer IIIs are the only GHQ armor that I have, but I would imagine all of them will come very close.
I looked up some GHQ armor on their site. For most light and medium tanks you get a package of 5 for about $10-$12. Some heavier tanks only come 3 to a package for the same price. Like Warrior888 said though, the gun barrels are very fragile. I wouldn’t think these would be good for playing a board game with.
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Thanks for the info, Knp. I guess I’ll just have to use metal units that dont have fragile parts that jut out, like a bare halftrack.
P.S. I just purchase a package of French armor GHQ. “FR1” it came with large tank a smaller one and three half tracks. but you were right about the barrel. It came detached from the turret and and so thin and curvy that it was not salvageable at all. I’m sticking with plastic pieces as I said.
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The problem with scaling can be easily solved if FMG uses the current axis and allies infantry pieces as a guide instead of having used the original pieces, which were a tab smaller. The original pieces that seem to have been used can be identified by the simple “Made in China” on the under side of the piece. These original pieces are actually smaller than the present axis and allies infantry pieces.
I took one of the original pieces and put the newer FMG italian pieces next to it and it was a perfect match in terms of height, whereas the present axis and allies infantry piece was taller.
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Gents, have any you of ever been on a WWII Sherman tank or a 2 1/2 Ton Army truck? WWII US Trucks where built bigger in size compared to a Sherman tank. UK tanks until the Churchill and Comets for the most part except the QLT trucks was bigger than their tanks. Jap tanks where smaller than Jap trucks. So what is the beef about the trucks being bigger?
Example a US WWII Sherman was a mere 6.16 m in length. A USA GMC 6x6 was 6.82 m in length.
A US M5 Halftrack was only in Length:6.33 m.
A UK Bedford QL was 5.99 m in length. A Infantry Tank Mk I “Matilda I” was only 4.85 m in length.
A Infantry Tank Mk IV “Churchill” was only 7.44 m in length. An AEC Matador Truck was only in Length: 6.32 m.
A German Tiger Ausf E1 was 8.45 m in length, a Panther Tank was only 6.88 m in length. A German Opel Blitz Truck was only in Length: 6.105 m
PzKpfw VI Ausf. B, Tiger II was only 10.3 m in length. A German SD.Kfz 251/1 Ausf D Halftrack was only in Length:5.80 m.
So if some FMG and HBG trucks are bigger than the Tanks and halftracks thats the way it really was in WWII.
So if any of you are WWII minature collectors as i am, then size is important only from that aspect. The non-military minded war game player most likely dosn’t care about scale or size.WARRIOR888
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Gents, have any you of ever been on a WWII Sherman tank or a 2 1/2 Ton Army truck? WWII US Trucks where built bigger in size compared to a Sherman tank. UK tanks until the Churchill and Comets for the most part except the QLT trucks was bigger than their tanks. Jap tanks where smaller than Jap trucks. So what is the beef about the trucks being bigger?
Example a US WWII Sherman was a mere 6.16 m in length. A USA GMC 6x6 was 6.82 m in length.
A US M5 Halftrack was only in Length:6.33 m.
A UK Bedford QL was 5.99 m in length. A Infantry Tank Mk I “Matilda I” was only 4.85 m in length.
A Infantry Tank Mk IV “Churchill” was only 7.44 m in length. An AEC Matador Truck was only in Length: 6.32 m.
A German Tiger Ausf E1 was 8.45 m in length, a Panther Tank was only 6.88 m in length. A German Opel Blitz Truck was only in Length: 6.105 m
PzKpfw VI Ausf. B, Tiger II was only 10.3 m in length. A German SD.Kfz 251/1 Ausf D Halftrack was only in Length:5.80 m.
So if some FMG and HBG trucks are bigger than the Tanks and halftracks thats the way it really was in WWII.
So if any of you are WWII minature collectors as i am, then size is important only from that aspect. The non-military minded war game player most likely dosn’t care about scale or size.WARRIOR888
The biggest issue here is comparing FMG units to the OOB units. HBG has stated that he is scaling off of the OOB pieces so all pieces can be used. FMG’s truck is 1 1/2 times bigger than HBG and OOB’s truck, this is the issue.
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Gents, have any you of ever been on a WWII Sherman tank or a 2 1/2 Ton Army truck? WWII US Trucks where built bigger in size compared to a Sherman tank. UK tanks until the Churchill and Comets for the most part except the QLT trucks was bigger than their tanks. Jap tanks where smaller than Jap trucks. So what is the beef about the trucks being bigger?
Example a US WWII Sherman was a mere 6.16 m in length. A USA GMC 6x6 was 6.82 m in length.
A US M5 Halftrack was only in Length:6.33 m.
A UK Bedford QL was 5.99 m in length. A Infantry Tank Mk I “Matilda I” was only 4.85 m in length.
A Infantry Tank Mk IV “Churchill” was only 7.44 m in length. An AEC Matador Truck was only in Length: 6.32 m.
A German Tiger Ausf E1 was 8.45 m in length, a Panther Tank was only 6.88 m in length. A German Opel Blitz Truck was only in Length: 6.105 m
PzKpfw VI Ausf. B, Tiger II was only 10.3 m in length. A German SD.Kfz 251/1 Ausf D Halftrack was only in Length:5.80 m.
So if some FMG and HBG trucks are bigger than the Tanks and halftracks thats the way it really was in WWII.
So if any of you are WWII minature collectors as i am, then size is important only from that aspect. The non-military minded war game player most likely dosn’t care about scale or size.WARRIOR888
The biggest issue here is comparing FMG units to the OOB units. HBG has stated that he is scaling off of the OOB pieces so all pieces can be used. FMG’s truck is 1 1/2 times bigger than HBG and OOB’s truck, this is the issue.
Lets not worry about the Truck size moving forward. Italy will have the biggest truck… There is a story behind it I will share soon.
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FMG - Thanks for listening to the community!
That’s what this project is all about, a community effort that gives us what we want (great pieces!) and gives FMG & HBG what they want (profit!).
Any thought on making your infantry a hair bigger?
Also, size is used as a “military effectiveness” indicator in this game - Battleships are bigger and more powerful than Cruisers or Destroyers, Bombers are bigger and more powerful than Tac Bombers, Tanks are bigger and more powerful than Mech Inf, etc.
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Alcon, I concur with reloader-1’s statement. So lets just support FMG and HBG in their tremendous efforts to give us additional cool looking AA playing units.
WARRIOR888
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Also, size is used as a “military effectiveness” indicator in this game - Battleships are bigger and more powerful than Cruisers or Destroyers, Bombers are bigger and more powerful than Tac Bombers, Tanks are bigger and more powerful than Mech Inf, etc.
In that case I think the FMG Italian infantry unit is the correct size. :-D
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I agree with you guys about the infantry scale but since I plan on buying all of Fmgs countries that won’t be a problem. Maybe HBG could do an upgrade of land units for the Italians. I was watching a little of WW2 in colour and noticed the Italians wearing a great coat. Would make a cool piece. Throw in a couple of armour with another infantry and I’m in. I think we all agree that we like the size of the air and naval units for Italy so an upgrade on the land might be what some of you are looking for.
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Here is the TRUTH and the issue with the Truck… if you look at the pictures of the GERMANY Samples, you will notice that the Truck is the correct size. The factory made a mistake with the Truck!!
As they had already damaged the first mould, and we had to wait for the second; I just could not push the release back AGAIN. So I accepted the Truck as it is. So… Italy will have a larger truck than the other nations.
For the Future: I had a great discussion with Coach today, and in future FMG will try to match Scale with his units. I think that he has a great thing going with his scale and is on the right track. We have been coordinating things from the beginning and I hope we can be better coordinated with the upcoming sets.
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