Not to beat a dead horse, but there is one more thing I need to try, before I can conclude with certainty that this is doesn’t work. (I have received some really good PM’s with some great ideas and feedback).
I’m ready for a rematch whenever you are. Do you mind letting me be Japan one more time? :-D
Stoney229:
Yes, I did figure that out after taking a closer look. I have learned a lot playing this out from Japans point of view (I def feel like I could have played better). Attack U.S. first is just emerging in our group, up until now I/we have been focusing on India/DEI.
Yes, escorted bombing raids would be catastrophic for Japan, and play perfectly into U.S. defense.
The test games for me where to see first hand (I know plenty of people said it’s not possible) how/what is possible for Japan in 3 turns (hopefully it helped others also). Sort of a baseline to progress from. That being said, the progression would be to test bluffs (forcing U.S. to “respect” a possible invasion) and/or tieing up the U.S.
I agree, it all comes down to: Is India crush the most effective/efficient strat no matter what or is their any other possible option(s).
I still feel like if Western U.S. falls, a Major complex in Asia + plus U.S. points will allow Japan to catch up.
Thanks a ton for your P40 map, its awesome!
Thanks as always for the quick response.
Sooo, 3 hops for a plane to go from Aleutian to Alaska? :-D
Well, thanks for the positive feedback. :-)
I know it sounds so cliche, but if I/We helped anyone be better prepared to counter this strat or sparked ideas for a new or a progression of this strat that proves successful, then that’s awesome.
@RogertheShrubber:
I have been looking at this over the past week and it does look intriguing, but I also believe proper US play should diffuse it. I am curious on some of the opening Jap and US moves however. One simple thing I saw at first (Although not a game breaker by any means) was that when he moved his CV’s into defensive positions at Hawaii and seazone 1 he left the Tac’s on board. I would have non-commed a fighter on all my CV’s for added defensive power. Also why bring the loaded tranny from TRUK to Hawaii, was that just to entice a response in the area more so then seazone 1. Otherwise I personally would have sent it to sz 6 turn one with the 3 purchased trannies. Lastly, I thought the strat involved a turn 2 minor IC purchase on Jap 2 for Alaska? Just inquiring, I may have read some of the posted moves wrong, so correct me if I interpreted it incorrectly.
I used the Tac’s to attack the Battleship and Destroyer that were in SZ 26. I went into that game with the pretence that I must invade Western U.S. on turn 3 no matter what. This forced me to make several “unoptimized” moves that normally I wouldn’t have made. For example the Battleship and Destroyer could have blocked Sea lanes preventing a Rd 3 invasion so i was “forced” to sink them. I agree the transport would have been better off in SZ 6 (this was my first go at this opening move). The minor IC wouldn’t make a difference in a round 3 invasion, but I’m exploring the long term effect of having it their.
Can infantry in Aleutian Isles “walk” into Alaska?
I know it sounds silly, but in past A&A games (maps) their have been instances where this was possible, even though it looked like it wasn’t.
Also, if there is an Air base in Aleutian, can planes be scrambled to defend?
I assume it can’t be both ways, but I’m not sure?
The progression of the Invade Western U.S. in 3 rounds thing (it’s really difficult to pull off in 3rds imo) is to test the pros and cons of possibly hitting U.S. hard early and then “tieing” them up in Alaska/Aleutian Isles with a “token” force.
After hitting them hard, I was considering the possibilities of Escorted Bombing raids + Subs in SZ 10. Then take care of business elsewhere…
Gamer I’m REALLY interested to see how our game turns out.
A battle/game that hinges on AA rolls is not a clear cut victory either way imo…
Att:
Rolls: 9@4 12@3 1@1; Total Hits: 129@4: (6, 5, 6, 5, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5)12@3: (4, 2, 2, 1, 5, 2, 3, 1, 1, 4, 6, 3)1@1: (2)
Def:
Rolls: 11@4 3@3 12@2 3@1; Total Hits: 911@4: (1, 5, 5, 4, 5, 2, 6, 2, 2, 6, 6)3@3: (2, 5, 2)12@2: (3, 6, 6, 1, 3, 1, 3, 4, 6, 4, 6, 6)3@1: (5, 3, 6)
Att:
Rolls: 9@4 12@3 1@1; Total Hits: 99@4: (6, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2, 5, 3, 2)12@3: (5, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 4, 4, 6, 5, 4, 3)1@1: (4)
Def:
Rolls: 11@4 3@3 12@2 3@1; Total Hits: 1511@4: (2, 5, 1, 5, 1, 4, 4, 4, 5, 3, 1)3@3: (1, 6, 5)12@2: (2, 4, 2, 4, 2, 5, 1, 6, 3, 5, 3, 1)3@1: (4, 1, 4)
AA:
Rolls: 1@1 11@1 9@1; Total Hits: 41@1: (6)11@1: (4, 2, 5, 4, 6, 1, 5, 5, 1, 6, 5)9@1: (4, 3, 6, 2, 3, 2, 1, 6, 1)
Rolls: 1@1 11@1 9@1; Total Hits: 21@1: (6)11@1: (3, 3, 5, 4, 4, 6, 5, 5, 6, 4, 2)9@1: (1, 3, 5, 1, 4, 3, 5, 5, 3)
Rolls: 1@1 11@1 9@1; Total Hits: 11@1: (3)11@1: (2, 6, 2, 4, 2, 4, 4, 2, 4, 4, 4)9@1: (6, 2, 2, 3, 2, 6, 2, 1, 4)
Test
Att: 4inf, 2arty, 1fghtr
Rolls: 2@1 4@2 1@3; Total Hits: 22@1: (3, 5)4@2: (3, 4, 6, 1)1@3: (2)
Test
Att: 4inf, 2arty, 1fghtr
Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 02@1: (3, 5)Rolls: 4@2; Total Hits: 24@2: (1, 1, 3, 5)Rolls: 1@3; Total Hits: 01@3: (6)
@The:
(I really hope that it doesn’t work b/c that would honestly ruin the game).
Totally Agree.
I got the ball rolling.
Gwlachmai:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=17513.0
gamerman01:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=17514.0
The map is good. I’m having a prob getting the Toolbar window to show in ABattlemap, any suggestions?
I will post 1 map for both, sometime tonight. :-)
Do you know how the play by forum works, and do you have the battlemap downloaded? If not gamerman can point you at some links that will describe how it all works. I can do it too, but, you’ll have to put up with Mr. Awesome drool.
Yes and Yes.
I like having the board setup too, it helps me see things from a “different” angle.
Lol, sorry about that.
I think it would be awesome to play 2 games at once.
I am busy atm, give me a couple hours to get home, setup my board, make some tweaks, and examine variations (for example I might try basically the same opening move with some subtle differences); then I will start the games.
I appreciate u guys taking the time to work on this with me. :-)
gamerman01: Feel free to make your moves at your leisure, it’s all good.
For the sake of every reader of this thread, please do play a game with this strat. As Tragedy said, it’s an “all-in” strat. I am inclined to think it could be stopped with a high rate of chance, but then I haven’t played this version of A&A that long, and it’s never been tried in my games.
Tragedy, if he won’t do it, I would like to try to defend against it in PBF with you as Japan - again - just to help you, me, and everyone else assess the viability of this radical strat.
The point someone made earlier about WUS only being worth 10 is silly. It’s worth 50 to the WUS, and if the US is out of the game that early, this game is unwinnable by the Allies (to answer your question, Tragedy)
Yeah dude, I will play anyone that is interested. The invitation isn’t only for Gwlachmai.
I’m not here to beat my chest and spin this as an amazing I Win Button. Honestly I really hope it is easy to counter. I’m interested in experimenting with the progression of this tactic and see what it is capable of. As far as beating a competent/alert opponent with it, everyone knows exactly what I’m going to do. :wink:
I don’t think it really matters if you take Alaska back as long as you build a solid defense. Unless the US player doesn’t see it coming, a move against the Western US is a bad strat.
The pros and cons of not taking Alaska back are debatable imo. The combination of Escorted Bombing Raids and Japan subs in S.Z.10 can be a massive economic disruption and really ties the U.S. up logistically.
If Western U.S. falls do you feel Allies can still win?
This is a all or nothing strat. Japan is “all in” on round 3. Either they take Western U.S. and essentially win imo, or they fail and have wasted their resources to a point they can’t recover from. There is no middle ground or stalling tactics.
Which leads to the next natural progression of this strat (I’ve been play A&A vs. this player for a looong time, and he has always been the most aggressive player at the table). At some point he will try to hit Western U.S. with everything on the board on Round 3. At the very least I would like to be prepared in the event it does happen.
I’m 99% sure I can tweak the Japan strat to bring more then enough to beat: 11 Fighters, 3 Tac, 1 Tank, 1 Art, 1 Mech, 13 Inf, Couple Bombers. (Approximate numbers from memory)
I will think about it some more and post later.
If you would like to play a forum game so you can show me why this is a bad strat that would be great. I’m not saying I don’t believe you, I’m saying show me.
The “That should never happen, It’s easy to counter” comments with not much backing it up are getting old.
Did you build that minor IC in alaska? Is this legal placement? I think you may have edited out the fact you placed it in Alaska, but I think it was in your original post.
Huh?
I have edited out nothing in any post.
As Mino1124 said, Minor in Alaska is legal.
My question is:
How do you pry Alaska back from Japan when they take it on turn 1, along with British Columbia and use boats to block crucial Sea Zones?
And yes their will be a minor complex their at the end of turn 2. Which wasn’t even needed or used in the game I played.