@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ya I sent in e mail exactly what u posted. I made a decision on going with the ships for sure. If I have to after this weekend I’ll test the planes too.
Can always lower ship to ship hit -1.

Problem is I think is everybody’s panicking due to losing planes. Then man I ain’t got money to replace them. Well then retreat after round 1. I mean I’ve seen 3 planes get killed on one side just in 1 round of DF.
I can see planes going cheaper too and adding more to setup but those new planes in setup got to go where you can’t use them on T1 and at least try the best you can anyway.

One way to overcome attritrion is to allow each power a free aircraft built.
Maybe Germany, Japan and USA can get 2 aircraft of their choice while other powers only 1 per turn.
That way, no need to change the cost while testing and assessing the effect of these mechanics on aircraft.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

These options I sent e mails to players. I will be using option 1 for sure.
By lowering the AA shot -1 for ships and increasing the ship shot +1 it we will keep the values for ships the same for more KISS. Yes these numbers can be tweaked. But
for me these look good. The CR did go up +1 in AD compared to old value.
This was also discussed by me where making CR @4 plane or @4 ship.
But now its combined per round of combat. This will also help out one side with no planes attacking or defending. The ships won’t get to the higher values now.
Besides the 2 ships should lose some AD against a ship for making more room for AA
equipment and capabilities plus losing a turret gun on both ships.

I hope your team will like it.

Still, I also believe aircraft can use the same mechanic.
I just tweak regular combat values to make them better (Fg D8/12) but not as much as Cruiser (D9/12) which is also C10.
Assuming TcB narrative that it is as good on offense and defense due to land combat done on known ground and with shorter travel to reload ordinance.
Fighter can still be tweak to D@3 AA D@5 ship or ground.

D12 system
Ships:
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
1 damage AD@2 Plane & AD@4 ship
CR C10 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
AC C15 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC C8 D@3 plane only

Aircraft::
Tac C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@5 pick target
Dive C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@5 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
N Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@4 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground

Ok. There is no dog fighting now

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Right. My thought was to lower AA shot @2 which I posted above and whether or not to use the same numbers for ships and planes if they did’nt have an AA shot due to no planes in a battle. So here is my 2 options to go with. I’ll leave it up to group what they want to do. Me personally would do it all with option also with lower plane costs but that is a whole new topic to discuss and dissect.

I see the two options you developed.
My suggestion is a subsection of one of them to keep an higher regular roll and high cost at 10.

Basically, in principle, you can imagine that you use the old values when you once only roll 1 dice with no special attribute, then each aircraft, Cruiser and Battleship get an additional AA dice at low odds (@1 or @2) when enemy’s aircraft are present, for as long as they are part of combat. Of course, there is room to tweak values here and there.

The special cases are Escort and Fleet Carriers which have no regular combat dice but get @3 as long as enemy’s plane are present.

The aircraft attrition can probably be manage somehow, but you have to see a few playtests to analyse impact on strategies or tactics and find different way to deal with it, IMO.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

I did 2 more test battles and god dam I keep dicing the other side with aa plane kills @2. It’s not even the ship aa @3
Never happens for me in a game.
Now I’m lookin at ship aa @2
? Crap is Killin me. Did have one side not get a kill so the battle flip the other way and seems to make closer piece totals in battles can go one way and then next round other way and then normal way. Oh man “The Wayouts” !!!
Got 2 games this weekend and I’m flipping out ! Lol. Just don’t want it to screw things up but it’s not really that bad. I just don’t want over kill in planes. But I’m waiting on group guys for there opinions yet. Vote so far 2-0 for it.

Many things and options going on as I see.

What makes interesting a special AA roll is that aircraft are costlier than DD, Subs and TPs.
Otherwise it is less relevant to have a special roll if the first casualty oin order is a cheaper aircraft.

It is interesting to consider a small roll @2 for Fg and Cruiser and BB while the other dice is treated normally.
When there is no aircraft, you don’t roll this AA roll and there is no rising up of the regular roll.
Less to remember. Bombers can be a minimal roll @1.

You may even think about it in the other direction.
Keeping all Fg and TcB at C10 but with an additional AA roll each round if enemy’s plane are present.

《The plane numbers will not be used yet. Tweaking those as of now. Each ship and plane piece rolls 2 dice with different colors.
D12 system
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
1 damage AD@2 Plane & AD@4 ship
CR C10 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
AC C15 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC C8 D@3 plane only

Tac C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@5 pick target
Dive C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@5 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
N Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@4 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground

Ok. There is no dog fighting now. So each plane gets a plane shot. I kept the number 1 less to see if it’s ok. Worried about over kill and have not added any planes to setup.》

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

AA gun
C5 M1 D@2 at each plane

Each round?
Return shot for plane?

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

What do you mean by my AA gun values and mechanics ?

Don’t you have an Anti-Aircraft Artillery unit?
Moving 1
Cost ?
Attack?
Defense roll @1 vs up to 3 aircraft?
No return shot?

@SS-GEN
I like that warship are @3 AA, Fg @2 AA and TcB @1.
Easy to remember.

With two dice it is almost same odds than 1 dice, treating “2” or less as hit on aircraft and higher scored hits treated as usual.

Now the question is whether or not the two dice mechanic is giving a good pace and a nice flavor to your game.

I’m ok with your numbers, mostly 8.33%, 16,7% or 25% is keeping things in check with minimal values.

Assuming this for your next game, what can be your AAgun values and mechanic?

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ya I got ideas to for planes.
Tac @1 plane or @6 ground
Fig AD@3 plane or D@7 ground

Without adding any planes at a cheaper cost, lowered AD could go with no DF
Tac AD@2 blue dice Plane hit
AD @5 red dice pic ground or ship
Fig AD@3 blue dice plane hit
AD@4 red dice pic ground or ship

Exactly!
Giving 2 dice means no need to have a dogfight phase.
Each regular combat round is played at 2 level air and naval or land battles.

Now, if all aircraft and major warships are playing on these two level, you need to balance them and specialized each unit according to a different purpose.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@Imperious-Leader said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Planes fight concurrently with other units but separate until only one side has planes. Not the case that you resolve all plane combat then land combat. That way you can still retreat then to watch your air force get chewed up.

Ya but funny how this concept is not any aa games. Maybe 36 and I’m sure a few personal games.

That is essentially what I’m playing with Fighters at lower cost. It works well.

But, with the new idea of rolling 2 dice for a given unit, I can think of TcB rolling both against aircraft and ground units. Of course, TcB would get a minimal roll vs aircraft while picking ground target at an higher rate.

For instance, using D12, my C8 TcB can be AA@1 and Pickground@4 while Fighter C7 can roll two AA@2 or 1AA@4 until there is no available target then apply roll as usual.

For your game SS, I can think of a Fg doing AA@3 with a regular roll @2 on attack and @4 on defense.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ya I can deal with this. Without checking history I or your saying a naval fig is better at a DF then a regular fig I’m assuming.
Tac and Dive I can go to DF@2 but in balanced mod there is only a DF for SBR only ? Not a mandatory DF first round combat before regular combat ?

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For game purpose and creative variants of similar aircraft. I have no way of telling which type was more effective in a defensive dogfight…
True for balanced Mode values are only for SBR.