General 6 Stars 1941 WW2 Game

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well could have just in
Capitals AAA D@3 each plane

This solution works only for the main Moscow battle.

If there is other hot spots outside, like in mainland Asia this rule would not apply.
However, if absolutely needed to balance massive aircraft combat, it can become a special rule (for Moscow or UK (Sea Lion) or Berlin or Japan, mostly) if there is 3 AAA in a Capital city, AAA defend once @3 First strike against each incoming aircraft.

I’m just toying around with this challenge of Air Dominance, to develop a better concept. This situation at a smaller scale happens early in (AA50, 1942.2) games with Cairo and Chinese Flying tigers.

As you know, all my game played with TcB picking ground/naval target and Fg shooting aircraft first.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well could have just in
Capitals AAA D@3 each plane
But then this would be to strong against stg bombers only on SBR.
What’s nice in my game is theres a bunch of SBR going all over.

Another question is did Tac/Dive bombers really just go after AAA guns ? If not That would help defender too.
We do have in game if the Tac/Dive seeked out the AAA gun only it couldn’t continue after first round fs.

On SBR, you can just specify that @3 AAA rule apply only for general combat.

In your recent rules, TcB can pick target after first round?
In my games, AAA roll each combat round. So it is a different context.

[General 6 Stars]

Right. I get Moscow only seems to be the German air dominate and Calcutta can be but in my game could cost Japan dearly.

I’ll have to see what group thinks of aaa gun stronger just in Moscow. But last game even with Ger 23 planes Moscow had a chance to hold. Less German tanks. Was easier to get through fodder quicker for Russia and then plane casualties for Germany.

[General 6 Stars]

1 guy in group likes the new fig value
I can see 3 places where this new fig value will happen mostly.

1. Capital defense
2. Victory city defense
3. Big naval fleets
   And of course some smaller scale battles for maybe a block or a chance to kill a few figs for either side

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Right. I get Moscow only seems to be the German air dominate and Calcutta can be but in my game could cost Japan dearly.

I’ll have to see what group thinks of aaa gun stronger just in Moscow. But last game even with Ger 23 planes Moscow had a chance to hold. Less German tanks. Was easier to get through fodder quicker for Russia and then plane casualties for Germany.

I think that kind of air and ground combat should be experimented a bit with a few mock dice battles. It very much increase the randomness.

It makes a different battle whether Fighter get a bonus dogfight kill or hit enemy’s aircraft first.

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

1 guy in group likes the new fig value
I can see 3 places where this new fig value will happen mostly.

1. **Capital defense
2. Victory city defense
3. Big naval fleets**
   And of course some smaller scale battles for maybe a block or a chance to kill a few figs for either side

I agree on these 3 main spots.

If Fighter are C6 and A4 D4, it implies there gonna be more air units in these battles.

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Right. I get Moscow only seems to be the German air dominate and Calcutta can be but in my game could cost Japan dearly.

I’ll have to see what group thinks of aaa gun stronger just in Moscow. But last game even with Ger 23 planes Moscow had a chance to hold. Less German tanks. Was easier to get through fodder quicker for Russia and then plane casualties for Germany.

I think that kind of air and ground combat should be experimented a bit with a few mock dice battles. It very much increase the randomness.

It makes a different battle whether Fighter get a bonus dogfight kill or hit enemy’s aircraft first.

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

1 guy in group likes the new fig value
I can see 3 places where this new fig value will happen mostly.

1. **Capital defense
2. Victory city defense
3. Big naval fleets**
   And of course some smaller scale battles for maybe a block or a chance to kill a few figs for either side
   I agree on these 3 main spots.

If Fighter are C6 and A4 D4, it implies there gonna be more air units in these battles.

That’s some serious testing for that. Ya I’ll just keep testing mock battles and if I get planes on planes battles in a game now I’ll roll out the new fig rule AD@5 hit plane first to see how they turn out and keep a record and notes on it.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Inf : C3 A2-3* D4 M1
Para : C3 A2-3* D4 M1 1st round only A3-4*
Elite : C3 A4-5* D2 M1 Can only build 2 or 1 -1 with a para.
Mech : C4 A2 D4 M2 Can blitz. Can tow art, AA gun & rockets non combat only.
Art : C4 A4 D4 M1-2 * boosts Inf +1 on attacks.
SPA : C5 A4 D4 M2 Can blitz. Hit goes toward a motorized unit.
Tank : C6 A6 D6 M2 Can blitz.

Fig : C8 A5 D5 M5 + if plane present and roll is a 5 or less, hit plane.
N. Fig : C8 A5 D5 M4 + if plane present and roll is a 5 or less, hit plane.
Tac : C8 A5 D5 M5 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. A roll of 3 or less can pick target. Can FS surfaced subs.
N. Dive : C8 A5 D5 M4 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. A roll of 3 or less can pick target. Can FS surfaced subs.
Stg B.: C8 A3@3 D2 M6 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. One round combat only.
H Bom. : C10 A4@3 D3 M7 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. One round of combat only.
Air T. : C10 A0 D0 M5 Can transport Para & Elites in combat only. 2 max. Non combat can transport inf, art & aa guns. 2 max.
All A & D planes can retreat after first round of combat and any round after that.
Figs and Tacs cannot land on carriers.
Naval planes can land on carriers only and ground.
The bonus plane kills do happen in both ground and naval battles.

BB : C14 A8 D8 M2 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus AA plane kill too. Shore shot @4. 2 hit. Dam A6 D6 No shore shot. 1D6 IPCs to repair.
CR : C9 A6 D6 M3 + if roll is 2 or less get a bonus AA plane kill too. Shore shot @3.
DD : C6 A3 D3 M2 Blocks subs movement 1-1. Depth Charge @3.
SS : C7 A5 D2 M2 Can dive after any FS Tac/Dive bomber attacks even with destroyers present. Then DD depth attack.
TR : C7 A0 D1 M2 Defends @1 against planes only if not taken as a casualty or trying to escape.
AC : C12 A0 D4 M2 Defends against planes only. Dam D@3. 1 plane only. 2 hits.
EC : C7 A0 D2 M2 Defends against planes only. 1 plane only.

I bolded and italized the changes from previous version.
Screening into your units cost structure, pretty good and well dispersed in the spectrum:
Land: 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 / air: 8 - 10 / naval: 6 - 7 - 9 - 12 -14.
I pretty like that all main aircraft are all at 8 IPCs.

With these three rules, I believe you might add a fourth to increase a few minor dogfight in land combat:
All A & D planes can retreat after first round of combat and any round after that.
Figs and Tacs cannot land on carriers.
Naval planes can land on carriers only and ground.
Up to two Figs, Tacs or Naval planes can land on a just conquered territory or islands as long as the can pay “2 additional moves” to stay and land.
Why 2? It makes sure there is no outstretched range from far away aircraft, that way you cannot bring aircraft which assumed to conquer the land or island (kind of kamikaze aircraft, which are usually forbidden when judging combat move allowance).

2 aircraft is not that much, and for islands it acts like airfields created mostly on the spot after capture, for instance Handerson field on Guadalcanal (this is not a sophisticate Air Base).

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Inf : C3 A2-3* D4 M1
Para : C3 A2-3* D4 M1 1st round only A3-4*
Elite : C3 A4-5* D2 M1 Can only build 2 or 1 -1 with a para.
Mech : C4 A2 D4 M2 Can blitz. Can tow art, AA gun & rockets non combat only.
Art : C4 A4 D4 M1-2 * boosts Inf +1 on attacks.
SPA : C5 A4 D4 M2 Can blitz. Hit goes toward a motorized unit.
Tank : C6 A6 D6 M2 Can blitz.

Fig : C8 A5 D5 M5 + if plane present and roll is a 5 or less hit plane.
N. Fig : C8 A5 D5 M4 + if plane present and roll is a 5 or less hit plane.
Tac : C8 A5 D5 M5 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. A roll of 3 or less can pick target. Can FS surfaced subs.
N. Dive : C8 A5 D5 M4 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. A roll of 3 or less can pick target. Can FS surfaced subs.
Stg B.: C8 A3@3 D2 M6 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. One round combat only.
H Bom. : C10 A4@3 D3 M7 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus DF plane kill too. One round of combat only.
Air T. : C10 A0 D0 M5 Can transport Para & Elites in combat only. 2 max. Non combat can transport inf, art & aa guns. 2 max.
All A & D planes can retreat after first round of combat and any round after that.
Figs and Tacs cannot land on carriers.
Naval planes can land on carriers only and ground.
The bonus plane kills do happen in both ground and naval battles.

BB : C14 A9 D9 M2 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus AA plane kill too. Shore shot @4. 2 hit. Dam A6 D6 No shore shot. 1D6 IPCs to repair.
CR : C9 A6 D6 M3 + if roll is a 2 get a bonus AA plane kill too. Shore shot @3.
DD : C6 A3 D3 M2 Blocks subs movement 1-1. Depth Charge @3.
SS : C7 A5 D2 M2 Can dive after any FS Tac/Dive bomber attacks even with destroyers present. Then DD depth attack.
TR : C7 A0 D1 M2 Defends @1 against planes only if not taken as a casualty or trying to escape.
AC : C12 A0 D4 M2 Defends against planes only. Dam D@3. 1 plane only. 2 hits.
EC : C7 A0 D2 M2 Defends against planes only. 1 plane only.

I bolded and italized the changes from previous version.
Screening into your units cost structure, pretty good and well dispersed:
Land: 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 / air: 8 - 10 / naval: 6 - 7 - 9 - 12 -14.
I pretty like that all main aircraft are all at 8 IPCs.

With these three rules, I believe you might add a fourth to increase a few minor dogfight in land combat:
All A & D planes can retreat after first round of combat and any round after that.
Figs and Tacs cannot land on carriers.
Naval planes can land on carriers only and ground.
Up to two Figs, Tacs or Naval planes can land on a just conquered territory or islands as long as the can pay “2 additional moves” to stay and land.
Why 2? It makes sure there is no outstretched range from far away aircraft, that way you cannot bring aircraft which assumed to conquer the land or island (kind of kamikaze aircraft, which are usually forbidden when judging combat move allowance).

2 aircraft is not that much, and for islands it acts like airfields (but there is not bonus move as Air Base).

3 piece value corrections based on some test game now.
BB C14 AD@8 rest the same
Tac/Dive C8 AD@6 pick target first round
AD@4 rest of rounds +1 DF bonus plane kill
SPA C5 AD@4 if roll is a 2 or less can pick a tank. No tanks other side choice of casualty.
Basically the CR @2 aa and Tac /Dive being tested.

What’s the purpose for the 2 plane landings ?
When u mean pay 2 you mean 2 move left then plane can land. It’s like fly across sz move 1 then land move 1 = move 2.
So the 2 planes can land after battle if they have 2 moves left.

[General 6 Stars]

I’m assuming you are saying now there’s defending air in those just concurred territories ?
But I’ve seen the axis in games having more advantage because there planes are closer to there main target or goals where other side can’t attack those planes.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN
Thanks for the addendum.

With up to 2 planes you get the same strength as a Carrier.
Islands were nick-named unsinkable aircraft carriers.

The OOB rules forbidding to land on a just conquered territory was certainly introduced to prevent both unlimited full move attack kamikaze-liked.
And unbalancing the borders battle with immediate hold of a TT with 1 ground and a massive airfleet, making impossible to fight back and forth over a territory.

The impact of this rule is that besides opening combat with setup, there is no dogfight in skirmishes battle overland, only at sea with carriers or scramble.

Allowing 2 ( you may decide to go 3, as scramble allowance) is to keep things within limits while having the fun of dogfight above battlegrounds.

When u mean pay 2 you mean 2 move left then plane can land. It’s like fly across sz move 1 then land move 1 = move 2.
So the 2 planes can land after battle if they have 2 moves left.

Exactly. For instance, 2 land Fighters (M5) starts from an island with AB+1M move 2 SZs, and 1 over land. 3 moves left. If they win, they have enough to land, otherwise they can fly back.

[General 6 Stars]

Well on islands a lot just had an airstrip. I can see maybe going with 1 plane on them and 2 at a airbase on the bigger so called islands.
I still would like to play with any airbase can scramble 3 planes but never get the +1 move.
But that’s another topic !

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well on islands a lot just had an airstrip. I can see maybe going with 1 plane on them and 2 at a airbase on the bigger so called islands.
I still would like to play with any airbase can scramble 3 planes but never get the +1 move.
But that’s another topic !

2 aircraft or less is to give room for a correct defense built up after winning.
Usually, attacker will not compromise aircraft on the frontline. To put them at risk, the main reason is to reinforced a needed to keep TTy wich have a few land units. With only one aircraft, my playtest showed it was not enough. Unless playing with OOB Fighter A6 D8 M4, which only one can bring a good swing,if casualty are played as normal.

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well on islands a lot just had an airstrip. I can see maybe going with 1 plane on them and 2 at a airbase on the bigger so called islands.
I still would like to play with any airbase can scramble 3 planes but never get the +1 move.
But that’s another topic !

2 aircraft or less is to give room for a correct defense built up after winning.
Usually, attacker will not compromise aircraft on the frontline. To put them at risk, the main reason is to reinforced a needed to keep TTy wich have a few land units. With only one aircraft, my playtest showed it was not enough. Unless playing with OOB Fighter A6 D8 M4, which only one can bring a good swing,if casualty are played as normal.

Ok but based on my game and having more ground pieces it’s gonna make some difference.
Russia not gonna counter if Ger planes helping to defend ground troops. There not gonna risk there planes and need a ground piece or 2 extra. I could be wrong but

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN

Of course my experience is based solely on much smaller scale games. Which is pretty different at your Global game scale.

If you can provide one or two typical situations you encounter with details on units, I might have spare to time to try something tonight with my dice.

[General 6 Stars]

Want to give a shout out to Tjoek for his country token list I came across redoing my map. Totally doing a rehab to map. New colors define borders. Resource tokens. LL placements
Cleaning up and better looking

[barnee]

@SS-GEN

sweet post a pic when done.

On a side note whenever i cleanup I’m never better looking. I’m thinking it’s a personal problem of my own

[Tjoek]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Want to give a shout out to Tjoek for his country token list I came across redoing my map. Totally doing a rehab to map. New colors define borders. Resource tokens. LL placements
Cleaning up and better looking

Thanks @SS-GEN! let me know if you need others, I might be able to get you a few more. Looking forward to see your final result.

[General 6 Stars]

Map 2 .pdf

Well got about 70 hours into map now. Got rid of the waves, redid all territory borders and sea zones. That alone took 36 hours. WT ! Nice and clean and crisp. Made territories bigger and smaller based on what goes on in my game.
Got to add more stuff yet and fine comb too. To me colors are off but probably pic.
I’ll try and post a pic of old map with waves and or go back in thread for pics.

Here’s old map pics

[ghr2]

Not gonna lie, this could work on a practical level.

[General 6 Stars]

Map 3 .pdf

OK. Pretty much map is done. proof looking over and some name movement adjustments needed yet and then some…
Hope to print Wed and then I’ll post picks of both maps showing what I did and tell you about history of the map and who’s map I used as a template so there’s no more confusion.

There is some small things on territories I need to erase so don’t get your panties worked what. Lol