For your reference, the A&A Classic FAQ:
Axis and Allies 2nd ed without bids, Axis Advantage, or RR
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@ncscswitch:
Strategy is fluid. Anyone bound to a set pattern at the start of a game deserves to lose.
See, you are assuming that because I have told you what my initial strategy is that I cannot shift. Your sentiment is also mistaken. I assure you I can never lose a game of tic-tac-toe games sticking to one particular strategy.
Anyhow, I want to get your strategy right because I don’t want to make assumptions. I think you have come to good strategic assumptions on your own, but I think you need to play online. Lets say I play a “typical” R1 and things go about average, maybe even slightly well. I kill your baltic fleet, throw a transport into UK seas, land my fighters on karelia, leave one inf in caucus. I strafe ukraine with 7 inf and 3 arm. Ukraine has one fighter left, you kill 3 inf. Retreat to Karelia. I also attack manchuria but that’s another discussion methinks.
Karelia now has 8 inf + 3 arm + 2 fighters + 8inf build. You have previously said that you go all out against russia, I wonder if this means that if eastern europe is not taken if this is what you do?
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Karelia now has 8 inf + 3 arm + 2 fighters + 8inf build. You have previously said that you go all out against russia, I wonder if this means that if eastern europe is not taken if this is what you do?
Actually at that point I would try a slight shift… crack the “free” nuts south of Karelia, taking IPC’s equivalent to 1 INF from Russia, and posting land forces on Russia’s border, as many as I can get there: all of my tanks, infantry including Med transport and a support shot to kill that lone Caucus INF). If I read your post right on number of forces in Karelia, there will be nothing in Russia proper (unless moved in from the Japan front). If I still hold Eastern, then the INF flows forward giving Russia and equally ugly nut to try to crack.
And since I am looking at small-scale attacks against Russia, my AF is currently out of a job. Oh, is that UK navy there? Not for long.
Then a rather interesting move after that land-forces build by Germany, a large number of fighters coming from Japan. Let’s see, Manchuria can reach (probably still exists if Russia sent it’s fighter to Karelia instead of to help with Manchuria), Southeast Asia fighter can reach. Bomber can reach. The other 3 fighters will be there next round unless you take Caucuses back; something you HAVE to do unless you want to build in Russia proper instead of Karelia.
So let’s see, that makes R2’s move re-taking Caucuses against 3 tanks, 2-5INF, 2 fighters and a bomber. Not an easy fight, but certainly winnable using those Karelia forces. Good, use them. Against that force, you are going to need a pretty sizable chunk of those Karelia forces… a sizable chunk that will not be IN Karelia when Germany hits you in Round 2… before UK has even re-built that navy (since so many advocate building in UK2), let alone started using it to Transport, ditto for US transports.
Sure, as Germany I have skeletal forces throughout Europe (except my G2 buy in Germany proper, enough to stand up against the 1 UK transport that can reach, IF UK built navy in UK1). But Finalnd/Norway still exists (if Russia attacks Finland so much the better, my fighter is a 4 then and my INF 2s, even more Russia forces spent), Eastern Europe looks like Karelia, a large protion of my fighters and my bomber survived killing UK’s navy. And you either have my previously mentioned force on Russia’s doorstep with nothing in Russia to stop it, or you attacked Caucuses pulling about a third to half of your strength from Karelia to do it, or you built in Russia not adding to your Karelia forces.
If you attacked Caucuses or built in Russia, I fall on a Karelia held with 15 or so INF and a few fighters, and repeat the Caucuses amphib landing if my Med fleet is still alive. Or I’ll take that Caucuses strike force and walk into Russia taking 20-some IPC’s (even if I can;t hold it, the monetary boost blows the game for the Allies) I’ll take those odds, every time you want to give them to me.
So yes, I am still “all against Russia”, but with the caveat of blowing the UK fleet out of the water so I need not worry about it in G2. One way or another, Russia is going to have to attack me, in force in R2, otherwise Russia falls in round TWO, or at worst Karelia falls; and those 3 Japan fighters that moved to the continent in J1 that could not reach Caucuses, well they are landing in Karelia (or Russia) now.
UK, USA, your 2nd move?
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As Russia I wouldn’t be afraid to retake Cauc with everything and leave 1 inf in Karelia, building the rest in Moscow and landing my planes there.
So would you as Germany attack Cauc, Karelia or both? Cauc will be difficult for you to take as there will be a large amount of forces there, and your infantry reinforcements are out of position in E. Europe. If you take Karelia only, I will probably have sufficient forces in Moscow/Cauc to retake this. I will leave 1 inf in Cauc leaving that a killzone. If you try to take both, I’ll probably have sufficient force to retake both from Moscow IF I WANT TO (and I might not :evil: ).
Any way you slice it, Germany on G3 or G4 will now be out of tanks, with few planes after the sinking of the UK navy, and still two moves away from Russia. Japan will still be far away in the East. But now, the Allies will have rebuilt their fleet and Germany must try to defend all of Europe against a 1-2 US/UK punch or a 1-2-3 UK/US/USSR punch in the East. In my experience, its best for Germany to wait for Japan.
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Why does talking/playing about this game never get old?
Okay, so lets say you follow your advice…
@ncscswitch:
Actually at that point I would try a slight shift… crack the “free” nuts south of Karelia, taking IPC’s equivalent to 1 INF from Russia, and posting land forces on Russia’s border, as many as I can get there: all of my tanks, infantry including Med transport and a support shot to kill that lone Caucus INF). If I read your post right on number of forces in Karelia, there will be nothing in Russia proper (unless moved in from the Japan front). If I still hold Eastern, then the INF flows forward giving Russia and equally ugly nut to try to crack.
You move everything you can get into the caucus. Assuming my strafe that I mentioned, that’s…oh MY! 2 inf and an armor. You fly in your fodder, I mean japanese airforce and it lands. I am not sure what you plan to do with ukraine, so I won’t make assumptions. If you left it light, I’d consider attacking there too.
So lets see about this caucus attack. 221 pointed out that you could just shift the stack, which would be perfectly nice. If ukraine was left lightly defended(?) then could the caucus/ukraine be attacked without a reputable counter in karelia? Caucus battle (using nowluck) - G: 3 * 2 + 2 * 4 + 1 * 1 vs. R: 5 * 1 + 5 * 3 -> G: 1 * 2 + 2 * 4 vs. R: 3 * 1 + 5 * 3 -> G: Kaput vs. R: 1 * 1 + 5 * 3
That leaves 11 inf to do your bidding in karelia. Of course if there was a strong contigent in ukraine like a 2 fighters, 3 inf, 3 arm, the caucus would have something to worry about on the counterside and might just shift. Of course, that also makes ukraine a tasty target though a much harder one to chew off. Lets say that ukraine is left lightly defended (though i am guessing nc wouldn’t do that). That leaves 11 inf + 8 inf build in karelia = 19inf + 4 ftrs. Assuming the G1 you mentioned, germany could next round bring 10 inf + 4 ftrs + 1 bmb + 6 arm. That’s a less than 20% chance at taking karelia. Not to mention you just weakened the japanese front substantially.
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ncsc,
Keep in mind that the PC version you play against was not programmed by the IBM staffers who coded Deep Blue to beat Kasparov. The 5 star generals there can beat the 4 and 3 stars. I think anyone who has read through enough of this and other heavy-duty A&A strategy boards starts out at about 8 stars. You sound like you’ve beaten the PC. Your postings are worth about 6 stars.
221B and others posting on this thread talk about killzones, which is highlighted by Don Rae in his essays. A&A plays well for this due to the lack of stacking limits. Killzones are too advanced for the latest PC versions of A&A. There is some rudimentary math to it, but to do it well (say, to the last 1-2 defending pieces after 3 rolls of combat) is more art.
Likewise, your post about getting everything Ger can muster to Cauc sets up a kill zone… one of the worst kinds, where the Ger arm get caught on defense, and the surviving Ger forces will be too weak to counter.
The main idea of kill zones is that a partial bulk of attackers will become defending units without benefit of ftr cover when the opposing player gets to attack. Also if the defense is overwhelmed, they hit disproportionally fewer, resulting in an economic battle gain to the attacker. Note that Ger must always guard against this. The Rus usu only lose inf on their attacks.
So when you attack on the ground, go big only if the ground forces you leave behind in the newly acquired territory will be large enough to survive on defense against all allied attacks. Otherwise, try to leave the smallest footprint. Save the Ger arm for the eventual big attack.
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Rus can easily afford to lose a few inf if it kills Ger arm.
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