I was wondering if there was a version of TA 1914 with the tournament rules variant from Larry Harris. If there is, I can’t find it, so if someone could link that I would much appreciate it. If this version does not exist is there the possibility of one being made by one of the fine individuals on this site?
Who Wins
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We need to move Paris back east; 3 spaces from Berlin. On the other hand, I did get a large army into Burgundy. Then again, this was through Switzerland, so relocating Paris needs to be combined with beefing up the Swiss.
This was probably very tough to balance, but the Munich factory may be too much the other way.
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@Uncrustable:
@Texas:
If Germany doesn’t buy navy, the CPs have no shot at winning. This might explain why you see the allies win most of your games. What do you do after the British fleet is sunk G1? Are you not building their fleet back up? How are you preventing the Germans from landing in the UK without spending money there? How can the UK help out in France without a Navy?
What? I cant make sense of this lol
Germany would have to invest massive amounts of cash into an invasion of UK lol. Lots of transports and a fleet to protect them. All UK has to do is plop down some more inf (to the already good amount starting there)
Meanwhile France and Russia face smash Germany because dumb German player buying all navy :P
The Allies have a massive Fleet advantage in this game and the Germans are fighting a losing battle if they try to win on the seas.
Also i dont think you get it Texas, France DOES NOT NEED HELP till way late, If Germans DO go Kill France first, AH cannot hold back both Russia while at the same time contain Italy for very long.
UK can still spend most in India because on turn 6 USA will dump 12 units into Europe to help france and all UK then needs is 2-3 transports to schuck 4-6 units into europe every turn (using french and usa fleet for protection). 4-6 inf is 12 - 18 IPCs per turn BUT UK starts with 3 turns worth of units. (not even counting the 8 in canada which french move over by turn 6 aswell) So they dont even need to buy any ground units in UK till atleast turn 8-9 or even later. By that point they are close to or over 40 IPC income. this means UK could build 6 units in UK and STILL put down another 6-7 into IndiaCP are screwed. Period. I have played 6 games, and the more i think about it the more i am convinced.
You basically just made my point for me. Germany has to dictate the UKs purchases and where. If the UK is spending everything in India, you have to get their attention and force them to split their buys. AH can capture Rome as early as the 5th turn, well before the Americans ever get close. Possibly earlier if they get favorable rolls. Also, if France and Russia go on the offensive, I would be overjoyed as a CP player as that is the main problem the CP player has in this game is they go too aggressive and lose way more troops attacking as the Allies do defending. Also, as far as the German Navy, yes, you need to buy a battleship every turn and a sub every now and then to force the Allies to protect their transports. Trust me on this one. If you ignore the sea with the CP, you have no chance of winning. You can’t allow the UK and US to freely land troops in Europe, you have to isolate France. Also, it forces them to also purchase warships rather than transports and land units. I have seen the CP win the majority of games and this is the basic strategy to winning.
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Texas you are clueless, what im saying is that Germany CANNOT dictate UK.
UK can spend whereever it so pleases, with absolutely no worry with what Germany is doing. (Unlike G40 where Germ can do an early sealion)
Heck a one good UK strat is to get 2-4 transports early and chuck units to Karelia everyother turn and into Europe on the turns inbetween.
Once the transports are up they can resume spending in India (drop 10+ units once every few turns or 4-6 everyturn.If A-H is all over Italy and Germany is going to Russia, then France can EASILY come down (through Switzerland) and beat them back away from Italy.
If A-H is all over Italy and Germany is going trying to get Paris first, then Russia will either A: Cripple both to the point where its gg. B: Force enough forces back East to effectively ‘save’ Rome. C: Go all in on A-H and wipe them out.You cannot build navy as Germany and make enough ground forces to take out moscow and push into France. Unless of course the allied player is a moron. For every BB you build that is atleast 3 more infantry each for both Russia and France.
France, Russia, and Italy should all build pure infantry with a couple fighters mixed in to create a stalemate. Once a stalemate is acheived it is gg for the axis, they simply cannot reinforce the front fast enough.If Germany does not do KFF then France can take up portugal, spain, morocco, and several tts in africa by turn 4ish and have an income nearly as high Germany itself.
The main problem is Berlin is so far away from both Paris and Moscow and theres no other way to build units.
Germany needs a second production tt (like india) in Ruhr or Munich and/or some sort of Railroad national bonus -
@Texas:
@Uncrustable:
@Texas:
If Germany doesn’t buy navy, the CPs have no shot at winning. This might explain why you see the allies win most of your games. What do you do after the British fleet is sunk G1? Are you not building their fleet back up? How are you preventing the Germans from landing in the UK without spending money there? How can the UK help out in France without a Navy?
What? I cant make sense of this lol
Germany would have to invest massive amounts of cash into an invasion of UK lol. Lots of transports and a fleet to protect them. All UK has to do is plop down some more inf (to the already good amount starting there)
Meanwhile France and Russia face smash Germany because dumb German player buying all navy :P
The Allies have a massive Fleet advantage in this game and the Germans are fighting a losing battle if they try to win on the seas.
Also i dont think you get it Texas, France DOES NOT NEED HELP till way late, If Germans DO go Kill France first, AH cannot hold back both Russia while at the same time contain Italy for very long.
UK can still spend most in India because on turn 6 USA will dump 12 units into Europe to help france and all UK then needs is 2-3 transports to schuck 4-6 units into europe every turn (using french and usa fleet for protection). 4-6 inf is 12 - 18 IPCs per turn BUT UK starts with 3 turns worth of units. (not even counting the 8 in canada which french move over by turn 6 aswell) So they dont even need to buy any ground units in UK till atleast turn 8-9 or even later. By that point they are close to or over 40 IPC income. this means UK could build 6 units in UK and STILL put down another 6-7 into IndiaCP are screwed. Period. I have played 6 games, and the more i think about it the more i am convinced.
You basically just made my point for me. Germany has to dictate the UKs purchases and where. If the UK is spending everything in India, you have to get their attention and force them to split their buys. AH can capture Rome as early as the 5th turn, well before the Americans ever get close. Possibly earlier if they get favorable rolls. Also, if France and Russia go on the offensive, I would be overjoyed as a CP player as that is the main problem the CP player has in this game is they go too aggressive and lose way more troops attacking as the Allies do defending. Also, as far as the German Navy, yes, you need to buy a battleship every turn and a sub every now and then to force the Allies to protect their transports. Trust me on this one. If you ignore the sea with the CP, you have no chance of winning. You can’t allow the UK and US to freely land troops in Europe, you have to isolate France. Also, it forces them to also purchase warships rather than transports and land units. I have seen the CP win the majority of games and this is the basic strategy to winning.
How are you taking Rome by turn 5? If Italy continually retreats to Rome and leaves ‘roadblocks’ for you… (leaves one inf in Venice turn 1 so Austria cannot advance- must conduct combat in Venice)? Turn 5-6 the US is landing 12 units in Rome…
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He has to playing against a very incompetent allied player lol
Because he also builds battleships and submarines everyturn germany and transports to ‘threaten uk’ -
@Uncrustable:
He has to playing against a very incompetent allied player lol
Because he also builds battleships and submarines everyturn germany and transports to ‘threaten uk’I don’t mind a ship or two, but not every turn. Depends on what the allies are buying. I tried the transport route to drop germans in karelia- lost them on mine rolls. never again will I bother with transports as Germany- it should start with one at least.
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I agree on Germany starting with a transport
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This thread has become humorous. Let’s all complain that the CP can’t win then ridicule the guy that has had success with them. For the record, I don’t build transports with Germany. I would consider it if the UK is ignorant enough to never build in Europe. You also have 30+ income to spend on land units even buying a battleship every turn. Also, if you have the sea advantage, you can reduce your naval buys.
Okay, answer this basic question, what is your UK1 build after the Germans sink your fleet?
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@Texas:
This thread has become humorous. Let’s all complain that the CP can’t win then ridicule the guy that has had success with them. For the record, I don’t build transports with Germany. I would consider it if the UK is ignorant enough to never build in Europe. You also have 30+ income to spend on land units even buying a battleship every turn. Also, if you have the sea advantage, you can reduce your naval buys.
Okay, answer this basic question, what is your UK1 build after the Germans sink your fleet?
Well, it depends on what Germany buys and how badly they beat the British Navy, because a 2 BB, 1 SS (or 1 BB, 2 cruisers) build that combined with Canadian ships (if available) and French ships in the SZ west of Britain should be safe enough, especially with 2 mine zones to reach it.
But france can easily get 30 IPCs as well to match the germany 30 IPCs … how does Germany win then? All france has to do is build infantry and the odd fighter.
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The point of a German naval build isn’t for some hopeless invasion of England. The point is to prevent the UK landing troops in Europe whenever and wherever it wants. If Germany lets them do that, they aren’t playing well.
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@Texas:
This thread has become humorous. Let’s all complain that the CP can’t win then ridicule the guy that has had success with them. For the record, I don’t build transports with Germany. I would consider it if the UK is ignorant enough to never build in Europe. You also have 30+ income to spend on land units even buying a battleship every turn. Also, if you have the sea advantage, you can reduce your naval buys.
Okay, answer this basic question, what is your UK1 build after the Germans sink your fleet?
Well, it depends on what Germany buys and how badly they beat the British Navy, because a 2 BB, 1 SS (or 1 BB, 2 cruisers) build that combined with Canadian ships (if available) and French ships in the SZ west of Britain should be safe enough, especially with 2 mine zones to reach it.
But france can easily get 30 IPCs as well to match the germany 30 IPCs … how does Germany win then? All france has to do is build infantry and the odd fighter.
Okay and that is the UK response I would expect and it was dictated by what Germany did. With that buy, nothing is left for India either, relieving pressure on the Ottomans. My Geman build would depend what Russia did, but at a minimum 1 BB would be purchased. Possibly a transport to force the UK to garrison Scotland and Yorkshire.
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How are you taking Rome by turn 5? If Italy continually retreats to Rome and leaves ‘roadblocks’ for you… (leaves one inf in Venice turn 1 so Austria cannot advance- must conduct combat in Venice)? Turn 5-6 the US is landing 12 units in Rome…
Italy can’t move their forces out of Venice towards Rome on I1, Tuscany is Austrian controlled. They can move them to Piedmont if they want.
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I honestly don’t think this game was designed to actually achieve the victory conditions. You can win without capturing a single capital. I think they were put in there to give the players a goal and well, you need to have sort of condition for victory (until the other player gives up doesn’t sound that great in a rulebook). You just have to push the other side to the point to where victory for them would be extremely difficult and time consuming. If I am an allied player fending off Germany at Paris after playing for 8+ hours and was told that if hung in there for another 10 hours, the Allies would have turned the tide, I would probably surrender anyway. I don’t have the time and energy to go on that long. That actually reflects the real war as well. The Allies won the real war but never came close to Berlin.
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@Texas:
How are you taking Rome by turn 5? If Italy continually retreats to Rome and leaves ‘roadblocks’ for you… (leaves one inf in Venice turn 1 so Austria cannot advance- must conduct combat in Venice)? Turn 5-6 the US is landing 12 units in Rome…
Italy can’t move their forces out of Venice towards Rome on I1, Tuscany is Austrian controlled. They can move them to Piedmont if they want.
So you attack Tuscany be sea? Ok, then the Italian forces move to Piedmont leaving one infantry in Venice and all other Italian forces go to Florence then. The Austrian units in Tuscany become sacrificial lambs (which is why I don’t advocate an amphibious attack on Tuscany- those units just end up dead).
Doesn’t change the fact that Austria can’t hit Florence until turn 3 and by then Italy will just have 1 unit there. Perhaps Italy will have its main stack in Florence if the Austrian attack is weak. By stacking Florence , Italy can delay Austria another two turns (attack Rome turn 5 at earliest). If not, this sets up a possible attack on Rome turn 4 by Austria, if they have enough troops to do it, which seems doubtful.
I usually buy a full set of Naval as Britain turn 1, and then buy some for India turn 2 and beyond. If the German naval attack went poorly then naturally I wouldn’t have to buy much Naval.
As Britain I would rather enjoy a naval buildup against Germany because that is sucking up German IPCs that would otherwise be marching on Paris or Moscow. Ottoman is not exactly hard to contain for a couple rounds with just the starting forces in the mid east.
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Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.
Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.
And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.
And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.
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Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.
Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.
And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.
And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.
Agreed.
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Taking Tuscany doesn’t achieve much. You have a chance of losing one unit and after that the Rome garrison is moving to Tuscany anyway. Only time I do those kind of small attacks is to let the opponent move their units the ‘wrong’ way. If that sz bordered Naples, that would have been a good choice, but Tuscany is pointless.
It doesn’t achieve much, but it doesn’t cost much either. It also reduces the amount of spaces between Vienna and Rome by 1.
Foring Britain to reinforce Scortland is not worth it. They have troops there anyway and if two German units land there (survivng mines) they are easy meat for the British homeguard.
And building a BB every turn with Germany leaves you around 30. The same (or less) as France. Then there is Russia and Italy.
…and the CPs have Austria and the Ottomans, which both make more than Russia and Italy.
The German navy isn’t for landing in the UK, it for preventing the UK from landing in France. As far as the argument for a German navy, take a look at this. At the start, the respective alliances have the following incomes: CP - 77, Allies - 113.
If the CPs control the sea, you cut off 50 of the Allies IPCs, shifting that to CP - 77, Allies - 63. Now there is a cost by the CPs to maintain the sea advantage and the UK can build in India, but that is too far away from the western front to matter. The CPs have no chance if you don’t prevent the UK and US from landing. I think I have said that a time or two so far.
And every strategy Germany comes up with is seen five turns before Paris is reached. So if Germany goes all Russia, everybody sees that before it is too late. Same goes for every other strategy.
No point in going all Russia. Paris/Rome is the easiest victory condition to meet.
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@Texas:
How are you taking Rome by turn 5? If Italy continually retreats to Rome and leaves ‘roadblocks’ for you… (leaves one inf in Venice turn 1 so Austria cannot advance- must conduct combat in Venice)? Turn 5-6 the US is landing 12 units in Rome…
Italy can’t move their forces out of Venice towards Rome on I1, Tuscany is Austrian controlled. They can move them to Piedmont if they want.
So you attack Tuscany be sea? Ok, then the Italian forces move to Piedmont leaving one infantry in Venice and all other Italian forces go to Florence then. The Austrian units in Tuscany become sacrificial lambs (which is why I don’t advocate an amphibious attack on Tuscany- those units just end up dead).
Doesn’t change the fact that Austria can’t hit Florence until turn 3 and by then Italy will just have 1 unit there. Perhaps Italy will have its main stack in Florence if the Austrian attack is weak. By stacking Florence , Italy can delay Austria another two turns (attack Rome turn 5 at earliest). If not, this sets up a possible attack on Rome turn 4 by Austria, if they have enough troops to do it, which seems doubtful.
I usually buy a full set of Naval as Britain turn 1, and then buy some for India turn 2 and beyond. If the German naval attack went poorly then naturally I wouldn’t have to buy much Naval.
As Britain I would rather enjoy a naval buildup against Germany because that is sucking up German IPCs that would otherwise be marching on Paris or Moscow. Ottoman is not exactly hard to contain for a couple rounds with just the starting forces in the mid east.
They also take out 2 Italian infantry in the process. I have tried it both ways and taking Tuscany turn 1 typically works better (they get to defend at 3 rather than attacking at 2 in Venice plus you gain the battleship hit). Even with the Italians stacking Tuscany, Austria has enough to win it without it being contested. As far as Venice retreating, there isn’t much to retreat from there anyway on I1. Even if you only push as far as Tuscany, you have limited the Italians to 7 IPCs. Building another transport or two also gets infantry to Rome faster.
I will typically sink the UKs purchases on G2, so the UK is continuously spending its money on just fleet and once the German ships are in the UK sea zones, they no longer have to roll for mines. Buying navy with AH is an option I haven’t really played around much with yet, but it has merit since the Allies can’t afford to build ships in the Med.
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Texas, back on the first page of this thread I kinda started the whole France can keep their income steady, and increase it if they want to as the CP take their European lands by French control of Portugal, African lands, and various neutrals (the others have been backing that up w/their own experiences). The UK can easily add to their own income by spending heavily in India the first 3 turns, and gaining the neutral/Turk lands (and containing Africa).
Now the Russians may not be tipped off yet that the CP are going hard Paris, because Germany hasn’t taken its first turn yet, but they generally don’t fight for Poland in our games (just gets their units killed), and only activate Romania (if Austria didn’t attack it A1). The Russians have adopted a move everything they can to the Ukraine (about 40 units), and retreat if the CP are gunning for them. On R2 the Russians will see that the CP are going west, and adapt accordingly. BTW our Russians always hit the Turk navy R1 or R2, and live with what ever results. They can generally at least remove one cruiser for someone else to finish them off.
This leaves the Austrians to deal with a massive Russian army that moves everything to Ukraine R1 (40+ units). Don’t get me wrong, the Austrian can hold back the Russian (have even seen them gain an advantage if the Russians attack), but they aren’t going to be threatening Rome with just their starting forces adjacent to Venice. The Italians know this, and start building transports to make landing in the Balkans or later landings on the French Med coast to help out Paris. The French have also activated Albania for the Italians on F1 in nearly every game so far, so the Italians already have a starting force in the Balkans to use in their first turn.
When the Germans go hard to Paris, the French will see it on their first turn and do mostly inf buys and pull back (the French will have about the same number of total units as the Germans in the first German attack on Paris, somewhere around 50 I think). They are tipped off because the Germans will need to pull back from the Russian front (move those units back to Berlin, and add G1 purchases) to have the strength to capture Paris (second assault). The French don’t need any help from UK early on because Paris is so far away from Berlin. The French can keep their income steady at 25- 30 IPCs (or more) all the way until Paris is contested depending on what they take. The Germans can assault Paris on the 5th turn, but need their G1 buys (and the units they pulled from the Russian front) to hit Paris again on G6. The French get to add units in between (when Paris is contested), and they will have somewhere near 25ish IPCs at that time (because of their other holdings). By this time the French/UK/Italy will have removed any CP navy in the Med, and will be full steam ahead to the Atlantic (Italy probably stays in the Med in case Austria gets cocky, but the US has war ships for defense in the Atlantic). The Western allies don’t need to attack the German fleet, because they aren’t landing in German territories at this time, they’re going for French coastal territories (probably Brest to bridge starting UK units from Wales). It doesn’t mater what the Germans have bought for navy (like you said the Germans aren’t going to take London), because they would have to attack a combined 3 power navy w/multiple BBs in UK mined sz’s, and the UK will be buying only navy for sz 7 from turn 4 on. If they have to they will lay out a build for sacrifice, and would be happy to have the Germans attack them with their friends near by for a counter double/tipple attack on a weakened German navy.
What we have seen in our games is UK spending heavily in India the first few turns (ignoring London) to either get units to Russia if its a kill Russia first (or force Rus Rev gave), or to take out the Turks if the CP are going hard to the west. The UK doesn’t attempt to rebuild the home fleet early on. The Germans sometimes add to their fleet, but it doesn’t really make much difference to the western front because the German fleet has to move though the UK mined sz’s to make landings anywhere near the western front (we have seen them lose transports to mines in several games). Early in games the allies have moved nearly all navy to the Med to double/triple hit any CP navy (stopping when their BBs are on their side to preserve them), then start reorganizing their fleets towards the Atlantic to get units from England to the French coast in turn 4 -6.
Texas, I’m not as critical as the others are about the games you’ve played, but I do question heavy German naval builds starting G1 (we have gone that route as well, didn’t end good though). I think the Germans can afford to build some navy once they get the ground units built and are heading in the right direction. Maybe start filtering in some early naval builds for the Germans to force a reaction from the allies (then a heavy turn 3 naval build?), but the naval dominance the allies enjoy is really hard to over come (you would need great dice IMO). I think your allied players need to play a bit more defensive, because if the allies are aggressive in the beginning and try to contest territories they generally just lose many units to a much stronger CP force, that will cause their collapse. If the French & Russians pull back and be more patient (see the full CP plan, and wait for help), and force the CP to make attacks on well defended land (even if its all the way back to their capital), then they are much harder to take down. The allies need to be more selective in their battles. This along with the UK goes heavy India the first 3 turns to help the battles to the east is a very powerful tool (you guys should try it out to see for your selves).
I’m not throwing the towel in on the CP as others have done either. This is a strange game though in the respect it is generally the axis (CP) that have a straight forward approach, and the Allies that have a longer learning curve. This game is defiantly the opposite LOL. In our next game as the CP we know we have to be more focused, and will be looking at limiting what I though were a couple minor mistakes. It is also much easier for the allies to recover from mistakes then the CP IMO. Good gaming Texas!! It seems right for someone from Texas to be a hold out, its kinda like the Alamo all over again LOL
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For my next game as the CP I have considered letting the Ottomans take Romania and then setting aside 6 IPCs as Austria to continually send 2 infantry a turn toward Trans-Jordan. They would arrive by around turn 6 which would hopefully give the Ottomans an increasing defensive wall against Egypt which might let the Ottoman’s shift their focus more toward India.
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