I believe this website is connected to the Matt Maupin MIA situation. Though not directly related.
His Mom & Dad live in Clermont County, Ohio about 2 counties east of me…the other side of Cincinnati, Ohio.
No time now will check it out later.
Iraq, again
-
U.N. weapons inspectors have found a missile program in Iraq which violates the U.N. resolution.
You are lying.
They found a (one) missile, which probably has a reach of more than 150 km.
I read about a week ago (!)of the two main rocket programs of the Iraq (Al Samoud II and Al Fatah).
In tests, Al Samoud II rocket(s) have flown up to (!, not all of them) 183 km, at least one flew Al Fatah 161 km. Both rocket types don’t have an active steering, and the above data have been mentioned in the weapons declaration (which i thought contained nothing new, if i believed the US and UK). Al Samoud II also has a calibre (possibly the wrong word) of 76 cm, that is more than the 60 cm that the UNSCOM-inspectors prompted/requested (right word?) in 1994 of the Iraq as a limit for their rockets.Now YB, seriously:
If you develop something, can you expect that all you ever do will be less than you expect it to do?
If you build a car that is allowed to go 100 km/h max…. and someone takes it and tests it… and sometimes this car goes faster (for whatever reasons, wind, downhill, good roads), is that a breach?It turns out to be a breach when you start to examine how you can employ these reasons why your rockets go further, your car faster.
If you find something illegal by chance, is that the crime?
I would say it is a crime when you start to look for where this illegal came from and how you can get more of that source. -
Something to think over……
(before someone here mentions the tape as a “proof” for the connection between Bin Ladin and the “socialist”, “infidel”, “Iraqi hypocrit” Saddam)have a look at: http://www.swinke.com/postgraduate/2003/articles/0003_agare.htm
and for those who can speak german :):
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,234863,00.htmlFor those who can’t is summarize that article:
Richard Goldstone, former UN chief prosecutor of the Den Haag Tribunal for war crimes said on the australian TV network ABC, that you US could not call an attack on the Iraq self-defence or, therefore any military action without backing of the UN would be illegal. -
Something to think over……
(before someone here mentions the tape as a “proof” for the connection between Bin Ladin and the “socialist”, “infidel”, “Iraqi hypocrit” Saddam)have a look at: http://www.swinke.com/postgraduate/2003/articles/0003_agare.htm
and for those who can speak german :
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,234863,00.htmlFor those who can’t is summarize that article:
Richard Goldstone, former UN chief prosecutor of the Den Haag Tribunal for war crimes said on the australian TV network ABC, that you US could not call an attack on the Iraq self-defence or, therefore any military action without backing of the UN would be illegal.Wow, some left-wing nutcase thinks America is responsible for breeding terrorism. Big surpise. :roll:
You are lying.
They found a (one) missile, which probably has a reach of more than 150 km.
I read about a week ago (!)of the two main rocket programs of the Iraq (Al Samoud II and Al Fatah).
In tests, Al Samoud II rocket(s) have flown up to (!, not all of them) 183 km, at least one flew Al Fatah 161 km. Both rocket types don’t have an active steering, and the above data have been mentioned in the weapons declaration (which i thought contained nothing new, if i believed the US and UK). Al Samoud II also has a calibre (possibly the wrong word) of 76 cm, that is more than the 60 cm that the UNSCOM-inspectors prompted/requested (right word?) in 1994 of the Iraq as a limit for their rockets.Why are you trying to explain and justify Saddam doing something wrong?
Now YB, seriously:
If you develop something, can you expect that all you ever do will be less than you expect it to do?
If you build a car that is allowed to go 100 km/h max…. and someone takes it and tests it… and sometimes this car goes faster (for whatever reasons, wind, downhill, good roads), is that a breach?It turns out to be a breach when you start to examine how you can employ these reasons why your rockets go further, your car faster.
Oh pleeeeease…why are you being so naive? :roll:
Like Yanny has said repeatedly, Saddam is not stupid. He knows damn straight that putting a rocket with an X size engine in it will make it go X distance.If you find something illegal by chance, is that the crime?
I would say it is a crime when you start to look for where this illegal came from and how you can get more of that source.You’re D A M N straight it’s the crime. :evil:
So now we can’t arrest a guy who possess 100 lbs. of marijuana in his car? We have to catch him getting more of it…? That’s rediculous. -
Falk how could you have read about something that happened yesterday a week ago?
-
Falk how could you have read about something that happened yesterday a week ago?
As you might have read, it was in the report. So, it seems that some news agency here brought that news before yesterday.
That’s why i am quite surprised about the waves that Blair makes about it.@D:S:
For those who can’t is summarize that article:
Richard Goldstone …said … military action without backing of the UN would be illegal.Wow, some left-wing nutcase thinks America is responsible for breeding terrorism. Big surpise.
So, first i read from your statement:
Everyone who is not agreeing is “some left-wing nutcase”. Good way to argue, you never can be wrong then, can you?
Did you notice which country i took those news from?
Australia: the country with a government more eager to lick your boots than any other in the world.…the above data have been mentioned in the weapons declaration (which i thought contained nothing new, if i believed the US and UK).
Why are you trying to explain and justify Saddam doing something wrong?
No, i am not. I am am pointing out that the UK and US contradict themselves.
They said the weapons declaration was useless. And now they make up something that was declared there as a news like “Saddam has said nothing about those rockets, we found them…” (with these inefficient inspections? I thought they canÄt find anything, and that’s why we need the war?)
That’s actually two contradictions.
Wasn’t it you who said i should trust their (US/UK) secret agencies? For what reasons? The US has some hidden aims, working towards them, and i have no idea what they could be. All i can do is look what happens and how they behave. And from the moment, it all looks like “get more influence, a strategic base, and oil”. That is not worth being supported by any means.Oh pleeeeease…why are you being so naive?
Like Yanny has said repeatedly, Saddam is not stupid. He knows damn straight that putting a rocket with an X size engine in it will make it go X distance.Oh pleeeeease…why are you being so ignorant of how R&D works?
You know damn staight that putting a rocket with and X+delta size engine in it will make it go X+Delta distance.How many rockets flew further than the 150 km? What is the mean distance of the rockets? What is the spread, what is the standard deviation of the mean distance flown?
If the mean value is more than 150 km, that is a breach (still has been in the report). If more than 1/3 flew more than 150 km, we need to discuss wether it can be counted as a breach or not.
If you find something illegal by chance, is that the crime?
I would say it is a crime when you start to look for where this illegal came from and how you can get more of that source.You’re D A M N straight it’s the crime.
So now we can’t arrest a guy who possess 100 lbs. of marijuana in his car? We have to catch him getting more of it…? That’s rediculousSeems like i didn’t make my point clear.
Assume the following: You yourself by chance find something illegal, you pick it up to examine it.
Wether you commit a crime or not depends on what you decide then:
If you drop it, you are safe.
Think of you find a knife full of blood on the floor. You pick it up, does that make you a murderer?
If on the other hand you follow that illegal thing (say: you try to find out how to make those rockets fly more than 150 km with every try, or take the knife to commit a murder on your own or find the marihuana and go to look where you could get more of it), then you commit a crime.
The purpose behind is of importance. -
U.N. weapons inspectors have found a missile program in Iraq which violates the U.N. resolution.
Actually, it was a mistake made by the Weapons inspectors. They estimated the range of the missle incorrectly. British and French intelligence services both agreed that the inspectors were erroneous, and later the CIA agreed. So, the “Smoking Gun” was no more than a bad guess.
-
In the Internet Age I hear that …
90% of the world is against the war, …
Bush = Hitler (when Saddam Hussein has killed millions of his neighbors and killed tens of thousands of his own people (I won’t mention the millions of his own people he has starved to supply his army and build dozens of palaces, some larger than Washington,DC [that’s 10 miles squared])…
all the signs at the Anti-Bush, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-War (my call) rally were exemplified by “Bush=Voldemeer”(sp.?, the Evil guy in the Harry Potter series), “No War for Oil”(mistakenly considered the anti-Bush, anti-war rallying call, when, in reality, it is the French Save-Our-Economy cry,) and “Bush + NATO + EU = War” (when, in reality, NATO and the EU are arguing internally over the war,) …
And the biggest world wide protest was organized in the shortest time by the socialists, anti-capitalists and the misinformed for the anti-capitalists, socialists, misinformed majority, and the minority communists.
This is enough proof for me to admit that the ignorant masses and misinformants have taken over the Internet!
Statistics on the “Whatever You Want to March for March”
were originally posted here. They were incorrect.
Please, see my following post entitledCORRECTION
–----------------------------------------------------
:cry: :cry: LOSERS! (Yes, we all lose in war :roll: . Nobody in their right mind likes/wants war.)
-
Try this webpage at FrontPage Magazine …
http://206.183.2.199/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6183
For the view of an Ex-Communist, David Horowitz.
I love guys like this! They see the truth and must tell the truth as their life stories lead them to it. Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist is another convert. Which MICE (reason for becoming a traitor) do they attribute to these gentlemen?
-
You do know we fit under both those categories? According to Sean Hannity, as recently as October, we import 300,000 barrels of crude oil per day.
MILTECH : We supported Iraq v Iran (the lesser of two evils … kinda like capitalism v any other choice.)
OIL : Last I heard the US had dropped it’s MAJOR Iraqi oil imports by 1992 and had instituted limited Iraqi oil imports in the Oil for Food and Medical Supplies agreement (one of the points of the seventeen sanctions agreeed upon by the UN … if you don’t like it don’t ask President Bush to get UN approval of any invasion…dat would be hypocritical :P .PS - I have asked my power suppliers to get their oil from non-Mideast sources.
PPS- I buy my gas @ Sinclair, Phillips, Sunoco or Citgo only. They buy oil only from non-Mideast countries 8) :wink: . -
Something’s wrong with your fora!
I’m on autologin and it ain’t workin’!
–------------------------------------------
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP! -
@Xi:
In the Internet Age I hear that …
90% of the world is against the war, …
Bush = Hitler (when Saddam Hussein has killed millions of his neighbors and killed tens of thousands of his own people (I won’t mention the millions of his own people he has starved to supply his army and build dozens of palaces, some larger than Washington,DC [that’s 10 miles squared])…
all the signs at the Anti-Bush, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-War (my call) rally were exemplified by “Bush=Voldemeer”(sp.?, the Evil guy in the Harry Potter series), “No War for Oil”(mistakenly considered the anti-Bush, anti-war rallying call, when, in reality, it is the French Save-Our-Economy cry,) and “Bush + NATO + EU = War” (when, in reality, NATO and the EU are arguing internally over the war,) …
And the biggest world wide protest was organized in the shortest time by the communists, socialists, anti-capitalists and the misinformed for the anti-capitalists, socialists, misinformed majority, and the minority communists.
This is enough proof for me to admit that the ignorant masses and misinformants have taken over the Internet!
Please, note that in the day of instant communication, a generous estimate put the total # of marchers/protestors @ 2 1/2 million (that’s 2 1/2 thousand thousands.) Figured into the world population of 6,274,000,000 (my figure extended from US estimates for the world as of Feb. 1, 2003.) this is 2% of the world population. In the Prenet days the @s would be multiplied by 1,000 making the anti-war # 2,5000,000 (1/3 of the world population). However, in the Internet age, it is only appropriate to multiply the marchers by 100 or less, making the anti-war #s more like 250,000,000 (1/25 of the world population.)
–----------------------------------------------------:cry: :cry: LOSERS! (Yes, we all lose in war :roll: . Nobody in their right mind likes/wants war.)
Okay, everytime I see the peaceniks out in full-force, it gets harder and harder to take them seriously. Let me explain why.
1.) Hypocrisy
These people protest against American “imperialism”, and about how we’re going to kill thousands and thousands of Iraqi’s. Where were they the last 12 years?, when Saddam was methodically murdering thousands of people every year. I didn’t hear a peep from them, did you? Therefore, it makes me VERY skeptical that their agenda is really about compassion for Iraqi civilians. :roll:2.) Ignorace
All these people know how to do is to criticize America. Where is the constructive alternative that they’re proposing? There is none. These people haven’t even stopped to consider what pacifism (or appeasement if you prefer) might result in. We tried appeasement in the 30’s…it didn’t work.Another example of ignorance is Congressmen Jim McDermott. This guy seems to think he’s actually helping the anti-war movement. He said that Bush was making up his own policy of “pre-emptive” war, and that never in the history of this country have we attacked someone without being directly attacked first. C’mon. Do we really need to go down the list? :o
3.) Stupidity
Their arguments are WEAK. (These are straight from a photograph of the protest in Washington DC:“No war for oil.” - That’s the best they could come up with?
“Regime change here, not Iraq.” - That’s really patriotic… :roll:
“Legalize pot.” - :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
@Deviant:Scripter:
Okay, everytime I see the peaceniks out in full-force, it gets harder and harder to take them seriously. Let me explain why.
1.) Hypocrisy
These people protest against American “imperialism”, and about how we’re going to kill thousands and thousands of Iraqi’s. Where were they the last 12 years?, when Saddam was methodically murdering thousands of people every year. I didn’t hear a peep from them, did you? Therefore, it makes me VERY skeptical that their agenda is really about compassion for Iraqi civilians. :roll:2.) Ignorace
All these people know how to do is to criticize America. Where is the constructive alternative that they’re proposing? There is none. These people haven’t even stopped to consider what pacifism (or appeasement if you prefer) might result in. We tried appeasement in the 30’s…it didn’t work.Another example of ignorance is Congressmen Jim McDermott. This guy seems to think he’s actually helping the anti-war movement. He said that Bush was making up his own policy of “pre-emptive” war, and that never in the history of this country have we attacked someone without being directly attacked first. C’mon. Do we really need to go down the list? :o
3.) Stupidity
Their arguments are WEAK. (These are straight from a photograph of the protest in Washington DC:“No war for oil.” - That’s the best they could come up with?
“Regime change here, not Iraq.” - That’s really patriotic… :roll:
“Legalize pot.” - :lol: :lol: :lol:
- Criticizing a “civilized” world power and using reason to prevent them from starting a war is hoped to be more fruitful than using these same methods to negotiate with an apparently evil regime are hopefully different things. Unfortunately many of us “peaceniks” are beginning to realize that this is incorrect.
- You’re right - there are few apparent alternative options on the table. Irrespective of the ludicrous statements of whatsisname, I don’t see Iraq pulling all the stops to blow up the world/Israel in the near future. Continued negotiation, increased inspections while not revealling new WMD are prolonging the slaughter and destruction of a country. We don’t seem to know the language Saddam communicates in. We believe it to be via force and might, but that doesn’t appear to be working. This is why alternatives must continue to be sought. Why are you in such a hurry? Are they pointing a gun? I think that Saddam’s regime would topple much more easily without his countrymen (who hate him) rallying around him to defeat America (who they hate worse)
- There are many intellegent people against the wholesale destruction of Iraqi’s. It’s too bad that protest draws out the lunatics and weirdos.
-
@Deviant:Scripter:
1.) Hypocrisy
These people protest against American “imperialism”, and about how we’re going to kill thousands and thousands of Iraqi’s. Where were they the last 12 years?, when Saddam was methodically murdering thousands of people every year. I didn’t hear a peep from them, did you? Therefore, it makes me VERY skeptical that their agenda is really about compassion for Iraqi civilians. :roll:Ok, as you USies are only out to “disarm Saddam” and change the regime: you then surely wouldn’t if the UN allowed you to go in under a … say french-russian high command, with a … say chinese-german control over the government there after the war?
I mean, that still would fulfill all that you (officially) want.BTW, i could agree to such a thing much easier than to an US dominated invasion.
For the not hearing a peep: you have not been in europe. There the whole mistreatment of the Iraqi people was brought back to our minds by hte “peaceniks” every now and then.
As well, there is a lot of talk about the children in the south of Iraq that suffer from cancer and can’t get hte treatment they need… why is the talk only of those children in the south? Is there a higher rate of cancer there? If yes, could that have some connection to depleted uranium lying around there, being left from a victor in a previous war who doesn’T care about civilians?2.) Ignorace
All these people know how to do is to criticize America. Where is the constructive alternative that they’re proposing? There is none. These people haven’t even stopped to consider what pacifism (or appeasement if you prefer) might result in. We tried appeasement in the 30’s…it didn’t work.see above: that is a proposal :).
And: there is a difference between appeasement and pacifism. Appeasement is giving in to demands, that is not what the UN is doing. It’s rather Saddam trying to appease the UN at the moment (not that he has any other other option).… He said that Bush was making up his own policy of “pre-emptive” war, and that never in the history of this country have we attacked someone without being directly attacked first. C’mon. Do we really need to go down the list?
First: AFAIR Bush made pre-emptive strikes part of the new “defensive doctrine”. Second: Are you pround of all your unprovoked attacks?
3.) Stupidity
Their arguments are WEAK. (These are straight from a photograph of the protest in Washington DC:“No war for oil.” - That’s the best they could come up with?
If it is not the truth, then the above proposal should not be a problem for you.
“Regime change here, not Iraq.” - That’s really patriotic… :roll:
Yeah, great: Whoever doesn’t follow my line is my enemy……
is there a need to be a patriot? Give me one reason why you must be one.
IS someone who is not a patriot some kind of second class human or second class citizen? Do you have to love or respect your country and what it stands for??
I guess for you someone who is not patriotic is a commie, coward, traitor etc… at least you get close to that kind of talk. -
Please, note that in the day of instant communication, estimates put the total # of marchers/protestors (in the world)@ 6 million (that’s six thousand thousands.) Figured into the world population of 6,274,000,000 (my figure extended from US estimates for the world as of Feb. 1, 2003.) this is less than 1% of the world population. In the Prenet days the @s would be multiplied by 1,000 making the anti-war # 6,000,000,000 (virtually the entire world population). However, in the Internet age, it is only appropriate to multiply the marchers by 100 [or less], making the anti-war #s more like 600,000,000 (less than 10% of the world population.)
–----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s all folks! -
If any of these peace protesters could go talk to Kurds or marsh Arabs under Hussein’s thumb - or took the time to read any of the stories we have by Iraqi exiles they’d do a complete 180 on the need to remove Saddam by force. Liberal British MP Ann Clwyd underwent such a transformation, and it helped bring about this massive switch in British public opinion which now favors Tony Blair’s position by a 3-1 margin.
Ms. Clwyd is a member of the left who has opened her eyes to evil. Read her column and master some of the horror stories, so you can educate everyone who asks about this. She told the UK Guardian of an under-nourished Iraqi teacher who gave birth in prison. She begged for milk to feed the child, but the guards refused. “For three days she held that baby in her arms and would not give the body up,” Clwyd said. “After three days due to the 60-degree heat, the body of course started to smell, and [the woman] was taken away and killed.”
Remember that New Zealand woman who offered to let Bush crucify her if he’d leave Saddam alone? Clwyd writes of a tortured and crucified a 15-year-old boy: “On the walls were hundreds of photographs of piles of clothing, mass graves and skulls. Saddam’s regime is like the Khmer Rouge and the Nazis.” Anti-war protesters “scream traitor” at Clwyd, but she won’t back down on the truth and now admires Tony Blair for his stance. She’s seen the proof which, as I predicted, we’ll all find when we liberate that country. That’s when the world will ask the Frances of the world, “Why did you sit still and trade with this monster?”
The world will do the right thing, thanks to British PM Tony Blair, US President GW Bush and a few other world leaders who take the risk of being unpopular(unlike a recent US President who ran by polling 10 times more than any previous president.) France and Germany will be shown for what they are! Mark my words.
F_k, we will see who has enough knowledge and wisdom in this argument. We will see who is right.
If you lose will you come back and admit you are wrong?
I, Xi, will admit to being wrong on this topic if I am mistaken.
If I am correct I will say no more on this website regarding this topic
unless my opponent is unwilling to return and admit his faux pau.
I swear this upon my father’s grave(died 1998), my sacred honour,
the World Trade Center(destroyed 2001) and the Holy Bible(NIV).
So help me G_d!
–-----------------
I realize that some of you may not value the Bible, but I believe that you will understand the depths of my conviction, if I include my father, a reference to the US Constitution, and a piece of the world that means a great deal to anyone who values freedom, responsibility and honour. -
@Xi:
If any of these peace protesters could go talk to Kurds or marsh Arabs under Hussein’s thumb
…
She’s seen the proof which, as I predicted, we’ll all find when we liberate that country.Noone ever doubted the atrocities happening there.
But she has not seen the proof for any WMD. GWB war rethorics are not about humanity, they are about the US being threatened.The world will do the right thing, thanks to British PM Tony Blair, US President GW Bush and a few other world leaders who take the risk of being unpopular(unlike a recent US President who ran by polling 10 times more than any previous president.) France and Germany will be shown for what they are! Mark my words.
F_k, we will see who has knowledge and wisdom.
If you lose will you come back and admit you are wrong?
We will see how many civilians have to die during the war. We will see wether this will start a “dominoe effect” of freedom and democracy in the middle east (as predicted by GWD) or wether we find the muslim fundamentalists growing support. We will see wether the disarmament is the main topic of this debate…. we will see how ineffective the inspectors are not. We will see the US ignoring international laws or not ignoring them. We will see wether the Iraw has WMD and uses them against its enemies (something i don’t want to see), or wether they don’t have WMD and the US is shown to either have the worst security agencies ever or is lying and not giving a shit about the rest of the world (something i don’t want to see either).
I am sure that Saddam is nothing more than bloody dictator, and that the Iraqi people suffer. I can’t remember that this has been mentioned by GWB or any of his lackeys, now they start to look for other “reasons” to get into Iraq, so they start to use it.I still say: The Iraq is not the danger that the USA makes of it. Only time without intervention can prove me wrong. It seems like your gov will not allow that. I would admit if i was wrong there though, later, if still possible.
(something off topic:
There is one christian fundamentalist country: The USA. They do research on WMD and do not sign conventions by the UN on that topic, they have not signed the anti-anti-person-mine convention by the UN, they ignore the Kyotot protocol etc etc. Unfortunately, they are the biggest bully around, and about to show us their muscles again.
Who was the last president of the US who did not fight a war?
Carter maybe?) -
Let’s start with Saddam’s WMD. See …
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/scud_info/scud_info_refs/n41en172/iraq.htm
and/or
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/maps/satindex.htm
Next, let’s look at Saddam’s connection to Al Queda circa Nov. 2001.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/archive/article/0,,4296646,00.html
Let’s read ‘a little’ about Al Queda and Hussein from the US Secretary of State Colin Powell’s address to the UN Security Council.
“My friends, the information I have presented to you about these terrible weapons and about Iraq’s continued flaunting of its obligations under Security Council Resolution 1441 links to a subject I now want to spend a little bit of time on. And that has to do with terrorism.
Our concern is not just about these elicit weapons. It’s the way that these elicit weapons can be connected to terrorists and terrorist organizations that have no compunction about using such devices against innocent people around the world.
Iraq and terrorism go back decades. Baghdad trains Palestine Liberation Front members in small arms and explosives. Saddam uses the Arab Liberation Front to funnel money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers in order to prolong the Intifada. And it’s no secret that Saddam’s own intelligence service was involved in dozens of attacks or attempted assassinations in the 1990s.
But what I want to bring to your attention today is the potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the Al Qaeda terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist organizations and modern methods of murder. Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, an associated in collaborator of Usama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda lieutenants.
Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialities and one of the specialties of this camp is poisons. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqaqi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.
You see a picture of this camp.
The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch — image a pinch of salt — less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is fatal.
Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein’s controlled Iraq. But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization, Ansar al-Islam, that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000 this agent offered Al Qaeda safe haven in the region. After we swept Al Qaeda from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven. They remain their today.
Zarqawi’s activities are not confined to this small corner of north east Iraq. He traveled to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, staying in the capital of Iraq for two months while he recuperated to fight another day.
During this stay, nearly two dozen extremists converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there. These Al Qaeda affiliates, based in Baghdad, now coordinate the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for his network, and they’ve now been operating freely in the capital for more than eight months.
Iraqi officials deny accusations of ties with Al Qaeda. These denials are simply not credible. Last year an Al Qaeda associate bragged that the situation in Iraq was, quote, “good,” that Baghdad could be transited quickly.
We know these affiliates are connected to Zarqawi because they remain even today in regular contact with his direct subordinates, including the poison cell plotters, and they are involved in moving more than money and materiale.
Last year, two suspected Al Qaeda operatives were arrested crossing from Iraq into Saudi Arabia. They were linked to associates of the Baghdad cell, and one of them received training in Afghanistan on how to use cyanide. From his terrorist network in Iraq, Zarqawi can direct his network in the Middle East and beyond.
We, in the United States, all of us at the State Department, and the Agency for International Development — we all lost a dear friend with the cold-blooded murder of Mr. Lawrence Foley in Amman, Jordan last October, a despicable act was committed that day. The assassination of an individual whose sole mission was to assist the people of Jordan. The captured assassin says his cell received money and weapons from Zarqawi for that murder.
After the attack, an associate of the assassin left Jordan to go to Iraq to obtain weapons and explosives for further operations. Iraqi officials protest that they are not aware of the whereabouts of Zarqawi or of any of his associates. Again, these protests are not credible. We know of Zarqawi’s activities in Baghdad. I described them earlier.
And now let me add one other fact. We asked a friendly security service to approach Baghdad about extraditing Zarqawi and providing information about him and his close associates. This service contacted Iraqi officials twice, and we passed details that should have made it easy to find Zarqawi. The network remains in Baghdad. Zarqawi still remains at large to come and go.
As my colleagues around this table and as the citizens they represent in Europe know, Zarqawi’s terrorism is not confined to the Middle East. Zarqawi and his network have plotted terrorist actions against countries, including France, Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia.
According to detainee Abuwatia (ph), who graduated from Zarqawi’s terrorist camp in Afghanistan, tasks at least nine North African extremists from 2001 to travel to Europe to conduct poison and explosive attacks.
Since last year, members of this network have been apprehended in France, Britain, Spain and Italy. By our last count, 116 operatives connected to this global web have been arrested.
The chart you are seeing shows the network in Europe. We know about this European network, and we know about its links to Zarqawi, because the detainee who provided the information about the targets also provided the names of members of the network.
Three of those he identified by name were arrested in France last December. In the apartments of the terrorists, authorities found circuits for explosive devices and a list of ingredients to make toxins.
The detainee who helped piece this together says the plot also targeted Britain. Later evidence, again, proved him right. When the British unearthed a cell there just last month, one British police officer was murdered during the disruption of the cell.
We also know that Zarqawi’s colleagues have been active in the Pankisi Gorge, Georgia and in Chechnya, Russia. The plotting to which they are linked is not mere chatter. Members of Zarqawi’s network say their goal was to kill Russians with toxins.
We are not surprised that Iraq is harboring Zarqawi and his subordinates. This understanding builds on decades long experience with respect to ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
Going back to the early and mid-1990s, when bin Laden was based in Sudan, an Al Qaeda source tells us that Saddam and bin Laden reached an understanding that Al Qaeda would no longer support activities against Baghdad. Early Al Qaeda ties were forged by secret, high-level intelligence service contacts with Al Qaeda, secret Iraqi intelligence high-level contacts with Al Qaeda.
We know members of both organizations met repeatedly and have met at least eight times at very senior levels since the early 1990s. In 1996, a foreign security service tells us, that bin Laden met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official in Khartoum, and later met the director of the Iraqi intelligence service.
Saddam became more interested as he saw Al Qaeda’s appalling attacks. A detained Al Qaeda member tells us that Saddam was more willing to assist Al Qaeda after the 1998 bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Saddam was also impressed by Al Qaeda’s attacks on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.
Iraqis continued to visit bin Laden in his new home in Afghanistan. A senior defector, one of Saddam’s former intelligence chiefs in Europe, says Saddam sent his agents to Afghanistan sometime in the mid-1990s to provide training to Al Qaeda members on document forgery.
From the late 1990s until 2001, the Iraqi embassy in Pakistan played the role of liaison to the Al Qaeda organization.
Some believe, some claim these contacts do not amount to much. They say Saddam Hussein’s secular tyranny and Al Qaeda’s religious tyranny do not mix. I am not comforted by this thought. Ambition and hatred are enough to bring Iraq and Al Qaeda together, enough so Al Qaeda could learn how to build more sophisticated bombs and learn how to forge documents, and enough so that Al Qaeda could turn to Iraq for help in acquiring expertise on weapons of mass destruction.
And the record of Saddam Hussein’s cooperation with other Islamist terrorist organizations is clear. Hamas, for example, opened an office in Baghdad in 1999, and Iraq has hosted conferences attended by Palestine Islamic Jihad. These groups are at the forefront of sponsoring suicide attacks against Israel.
Al Qaeda continues to have a deep interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction. As with the story of Zarqawi and his network, I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative telling how Iraq provided training in these weapons to Al Qaeda.
Fortunately, this operative is now detained, and he has told his story. I will relate it to you now as he, himself, described it.
This senior Al Qaeda terrorist was responsible for one of Al Qaeda’s training camps in Afghanistan.
His information comes first-hand from his personal involvement at senior levels of Al Qaeda. He says bin Laden and his top deputy in Afghanistan, deceased Al Qaeda leader Muhammad Atif (ph), did not believe that Al Qaeda labs in Afghanistan were capable enough to manufacture these chemical or biological agents. They needed to go somewhere else. They had to look outside of Afghanistan for help. Where did they go? Where did they look? They went to Iraq.
The support that (inaudible) describes included Iraq offering chemical or biological weapons training for two Al Qaeda associates beginning in December 2000. He says that a militant known as Abu Abdula Al-Iraqi (ph) had been sent to Iraq several times between 1997 and 2000 for help in acquiring poisons and gases. Abdula Al-Iraqi (ph) characterized the relationship he forged with Iraqi officials as successful.
As I said at the outset, none of this should come as a surprise to any of us. Terrorism has been a tool used by Saddam for decades. Saddam was a supporter of terrorism long before these terrorist networks had a name. And this support continues. The nexus of poisons and terror is new. The nexus of Iraq and terror is old. The combination is lethal.
With this track record, Iraqi denials of supporting terrorism take the place alongside the other Iraqi denials of weapons of mass destruction. It is all a web of lies.
When we confront a regime that harbors ambitions for regional domination, hides weapons of mass destruction and provides haven and active support for terrorists, we are not confronting the past, we are confronting the present. And unless we act, we are confronting an even more frightening future.”More to follow.
-
Well said, SUD. :D
I absolutly agree with you.
You said it better than I ever could.
Being Canadian myself, I’m extremely grateful for the way the USA handles it’s foreigner affairs. -
Many US citizens appreciate our neighbors to the north, Canada.
I an my family have been to Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec and on a few trips to the wilds of Canada. I relly enjoyed a train trip taken somewhere north of Michigan through the mountain passes in the fall. Indescribable! I gotta find the info on that again and take a trip before our oldest is out of high school.
We love what little we know of your country …
Jim Carey, Nunavut, Paul Schaeffer, Canadiens,
Peter Jennings(though I wanna send him back), caribou
and, of course, Red Green :wink:Love ya.
Though I have to admit the one Canadian
I have ever met was a wack job. Sorry!Back to the topic …
-
Hot Damn SUD!
You’re on fire! :D
Suggested Topics
