Hey folks,
Another question on transports… I find shuttling troops around with transports to be a very dicey affair. I’ve seen a few cases where I send out 2 or 3 transports with a Cruiser or Battleship (haven’t had a chance to build a Destroyer in the first turn) and then 3 or so German u-boats sink the BB or Cruiser and then destroy all the transports at a great loss of IPC.
From this I’m taking the strategy that you need to escort every 2 transports with 1 Destroyer to counter the sub threat. Other thoughts and or strategies for effective transport protection?
thx
-Martman
Well, you’ve got to build up a fleet capable of withstanding the enemy attacks. So if you look at the board and it looks like the enemy could destroy your transports, then you need to build more defensive ships. An aircraft carrier paired with 2 fighters is often your best bet as long as you’ve got at least 1 destroyer to protect you from submarine attacks, but sometimes a battleship and/or a cruiser may be the best purchase depending on your situation.
Thanks for the reply.
A follow up… if I have a bunch of fighters in an adjacent land zone to the SZ where the transports are, it appears that those fighters cannot help defend the transports (and would require a destoyer to do so anyways) in the sea zone.
ALso having an aircraft carrier with 2 fighters (34 IPC!) seems like a huge investment, would 4 Destroyers be better? Just curious… :-)
thx
-Martin
@msleeman:
ALso having an aircraft carrier with 2 fighters (34 IPC!) seems like a huge investment, would 4 Destroyers be better? Just curious…
4 destroyers is 32… only 2 IPC’s cheaper so its really the same investment. but you get way more options with the carrier and fighters… you can use them in other nearby combat, and the Attack / defense rolls are stronger. and if the enemy stills sinks your fleet your fighters can save themselves since subs dont hit planes. But planes can hit subs if they have a destroyer with them.
I would also add Subs to the mix… they can be used to take Enemy Sub Hits… while your destroyer / fighters take out the enemy subs
for example… 1st round buy for germany can be various land units, an Aircraft carrier, Sub & transport placed with the north fleet… you would have… 1 Carrier (2 ftrs), Destroyer, 3 Subs, 2 transports… that threatens Britain Early
I think Keredrex makes a good point about adding subs to the mix to take hits as well as the options a carrier+planes give you, not so sure about the Northern German Fleet strategy though :-) If you already own planes, nothing is as cost effective as a carrier with existing planes and 2 infantry provides better land defense than a single plane as you have twice the number of pieces at about 1/2 the cost. It’s really nice to have 4 planes for each carrier, 2 on ship, 2 on land. Try for land combat where the 2 planes on land attack then fly to the fleet, the 2 fleet planes fly out to land combat then land on well land. It works well if you are trading a territory 3 zones from the fleet and defending the adjacent territory, thinks brits and americans attacking german units along the russian border. Nothing I like better than taking out 4 german infantry with 3 allied infantry + 4 fighters and maybe a bomber. On average you only lose 2 infantry, so what if you lose 3, the russians drive a tank in and out to claim the cash.
I think you need a mix for fleet. You need at least 1 destroyer, I like 2 for the reason you might need a ship to act as a blocking unit to cover a mistake on your behalf or strategically to buy you time to move your fleet without fear of enemy fleet attack as it must stop to fight the destroyer. A sub can’t block and a destroyer is the cheapest unit that can. It also means you can send out 1 of 2 destroyers plus air to attack a seazone that contains more than 1 sub, ie trade an 8 IPC destroyer to sink 12 or more IPC of subs and maybe even luck out and take something out when the sitting duck destroyer is attacked. As Keredrex mentioned, its nice to have subs to take hits and they are the most cost effective way of killing enemy ships. Believe it or not, 1 cruiser worth 12 IPC attacks 2 subs that only defend on a 1, the subs win on defense about 60% and have a slight edge on average for IPC inflicting over taken. I highly recommend using a combat simulator and run some various scenarios to see how battles between various fleet configurations works out. Everyone has their favourite, I like http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html
I nearly lost a game because of a stupid single jap sub that snuck around south america to harass a small combined brit and american fleet headed into the mediterranean. The brits had moved their fleet in but required american support. The americans attacked a lone jap sub with 1 destroyer and 2 planes, I missed completely, he hit, battle ended. Jap sub attacks US fleet of a CC, CV and 2 planes no backup destroyer and no sub that would have taken the enemy sub hit in the first or second battle. I had to take the cruiser off because the loss of carrier even if the cruiser took out the sub meant the brit fleet would not have had enough defense. Just out of luck, I took the CC off the CV hit on the 2 and was able to provide enough defense to the brit fleet to allow it to live. Just remember subs cannot be taken as hits from enemy planes unless the enemy has a destroyer, sometimes a mixed blessing!
I think Keredrex makes a good point about adding subs to the mix to take hits as well as the options a carrier+planes give you, not so sure about the Northern German Fleet strategy though :-) ……
German Fleet strategy can work but it depends on Russian 1st move and Germany’s overall strategy, part of which would be to avoid Africa (With the exception of Egypt, to kill the units there and close the canal)
once my friend brought the Mediterranean Battleship, Transport & Sub in SZ8 around to the north to meet the fleet and fight UK… Crazy game
I am sure the baltic fleet strategy has been talked to death already for the veterans here but its still new for me. I will admit never having used nor played against it. So, based on not having any experience with it, let me talk about it lol. I think England would find it pretty easy to build enough infantry on England to prevent operation sealion. The German fleet if not able to invade england really doesn’t earn you much money up there, yeah it helps Norway but thats only 3 IPC. Now, put that carrier down south and it opens up all of Africa. Germany up 10-12 and England down 10-12 IPC will get the allies attention. Trust me, it kills me to just lose that northern fleet, but you don’t lose the subs and they should move out into the atlantic to harasses the allies then pull them back with the Med fleet.
Until I am proven wrong by losing to this strategy, my first thought is that is good money after bad trying to protect the DD and transport. I do like a CV and transport in the Med on G1 however :-)
thinking about it in a Broad, overall way……
Building the fleet in the North Forces Britain to spend in the north and not anywhere else…
Britain cant afford to drop any complexes early with the german threat…
and if germany is hammering russia as well then they dont need african money.
America may be forced into a KGF (Kill Germany First) and send there resources to Britain.
This Leaves Japan alone in the pacific allowing them to take Britains money and take russias eastern territories.
If the axis move fast enough and win more decisive battles… they can take russia out.
Again this is the General idea of how some games played out. It still depends on Di Rolls and individual strategy
I think it also depend on the allied strategy. I don’t build ICs but rather british fleet combined with american. Since I am building allied fleet anyways, I would welcome a fleet building contest between germany and Britain/USA.
The moment you build that first northern carrier you are commited to either writing it off, or spending more to protect it. The Brits don’t have much to lose to the Japs that they wouldn’t lose anyways. You can leave Japan alone for 4-5 turns and they really can’t put pressure on Russian until about R6. By R6, with Germany out of Africa and spent countless IPC on a fleet only to be outbuilt by the allies….would be in little condition to threaten russian.
Now, if I built an IC in africa and had to split resources, different story I am sure!
Yeah i agreee it depends on certain moves… although Japan can hut russia way before turn 6… if they buy 2 complexes on 1st turn
Hmm, hurt is a relative term I guess.
Turn #1 Japan builds 2 IC say Man and FIC and have to hunker down somewhat to protect them and not enough AA’s yet to defend against SBR.
Turn #2 Japn builds tanks 6 tanks and no infantry support, no navy.
Turn #3 Tanks might be able to attack Sin with little Infantry support and would be lucky to survive the attack never mind defense from soviet counter-attack.
Turn 4 Whatever tanks survive move up to Nov and get spanked.
Turn 5 If tanks survived attack J3, Defense from attack R4, then survive attack of J4 then by turn 5 something in theory might be able to hit Russian give a great deal of luck.
Moreover, the question of what occured in the soviet eastern territories and Britains threats from India has not been addressed.
If the soviets play it smart and slowly withdraw into strong counter-attack positions it forces the japs to advance slowly.
In my opinion infantry win the war for Japan and a longer term outlook obviouisly as they take so long to get into position.
Is Anniversary the edition where tanks started to cost 6?
Is Anniversary the edition where tanks started to cost 6?
were you meant? If so they were 5, only in the two new games their 6.
