The 40 IPC Myth

[Razor]

And you might add, if UK recive 20 or 30 IPC the first turns, they place it right in the middle of action. But if USA get the “40” IPC boost, they’ll have to bring it from the other side of the ocean before they can put it to good use. Unless Japan attack USA mainland in J1, wich is not very clever.

[Gwlachmai]

This is also not taking into account the Japanese player will gain income faster on a J1 attack. On a J2 attack usually the Japanese are only collecting an extra 4 IPC’s in China plus 2 IPC’s from French Indo China in turn one. With a J1 attack you’re also likely claiming Hong Kong (3 IPC’s), Phillipines (2 IPC’s), and one of the DEI (3 or 4 IPC’s). So inaddtion to destroying 80+ worth of allied combat units for almost no losses Japanese economy shoots right up there from the get go. Not to mention the the Japanese fleet is well poised to take the Dutch East Indies with the earliest the allies can muster up a weak response to such a move is two turns away.

[Hobbes]

Yes to everything being said so far. If you calculate the math for the income earned/lost for the first 2 turns, and considering either J1, J2 or J3 attacks, the J1 option is the one more profitable for Japan. Plus you kill the UK BB and TRNs, US transport, fighter and bomber on PI.

[Razor]

But I figure China will be strong then.

[Razor]

…and its not only about IPC. There are benefits and inconviniences to both J1 and J3 attacks. Pulling a J1 attack, the allies can not block your movement, but you are far away from all Capitals. In a J3 attack you have the opportunity to position your fleet in striking distance from India or NSW, wich will be decesive battles, but the allies have time to block your routes. So basically it boils down to personal preferance.

[Van_Trump]

Also Kauf, when Hong Kong falls on J1 that’s 5 less IPC’s for UK (National Objective)

Ah, Razor, but Japan is not after Capitals; victory cities are what wins the game.
Manila + Hong Kong make 4. Just 2 more to go after that.
The J1 attack puts the Allies back on their heels, reeling from several devastating punches.

I have come to the conclusion that banning the J1 attack is the only way to balance this game.
All you have to add to the rules is the following phrase: Beginning with Japan’s 2nd turn, Japan has the option to attack…

[WILD BILL]

I have noticed its much harder to take the UK down if you wait for J3. If left alone UK gets about 25 ipc rd #1. It can take all DEI rd #2 and get like a 37 ipc pay day. That’s a lot of inf (and normally 2 more ftr) on India. Then Anz brings over a couple more ftrs, now you have a problem. Yea Jap will take the DEI fairly easy, and take the Brits down to around 9 ipc’s rd #3, but the damage is already done.  With 15+ inf, and 6-8 ftrs on India or Burma, it can be a real bitch. Then of course the British fleet will be parked in Sidney, or maybe even Hawaii, along with some of the US Phil units.

[Gwlachmai]

@Razor:

…and its not only about IPC. There are benefits and inconviniences to both J1 and J3 attacks. Pulling a J1 attack, the allies can not block your movement, but you are far away from all Capitals. In a J3 attack you have the opportunity to position your fleet in striking distance from India or NSW, wich will be decesive battles, but the allies have time to block your routes. So basically it boils down to personal preferance.

I think you’re kind of missing the point of the thread. There are enormous benefits to the J1 attack that you do not see in the J2 or J3 and J3 attacks. You crush the British economy, you can sink all but one allied transport on the board, the Japanese economy grows faster then it otherwise would on a J2 or J3, and all this for minimal losses.

What gains are you balancing this against for a J2 or J3? Japans economy stagnates for an extra round or two (being locked around 32-36 IPC’s), the UK’s economy could potentially shoot up to 29-37 depending on how long you wait, and the US forces at the Phillipines, and the British South pacific fleet escape destruction. All the repositioning you would normally do on a J2 attack you can still do on a J1 only now allyour oppostion in the area is dead. Sure it’s personal choice as to which you use, but, realistically there is no reason to use a J2 or J3 all the advantages are in J1.

My group initially experimented with J2 and J3 attacks, but, after seeing the benefit’s of the J1 India rush it’s become the default attack strat and after an impressive string of Jap wins we’ve pretty much put the game away. So now I have to play forum games to get my game on, and I’ve seen nothing on there to suggest that the results are any different for others. I hope that the combined game balances this out some, but, that still sucks for Pac40 as a stand alone game.

[Whitmann]

I’ve been playing a ton on the forum and I would say without any question any possible advantage gained in waiting for J2 or J3 are off set by the enourmous momentem gained by a J1 attack not only in Japanese income but by Japan’s ability to simply, at little or no cost, remove large numbers on Allied units J1.  We have simply been able to overwelm the Allies capturing India consistantly on turn 3 almost regardless of the Allied counter, and really once India falls the game get near to the end.  I have heard people on the forum say that India can be held past turn 3.  I havn’t yet seen in face to face games or online, if Japan is played correctly how it is possible without piles of luck.  The game clearly has been broken with out a bid, to even it up.  Anyone have any thoughts on what they would bid?

P.S. As far a personal preferance, if you perfer to win J1 is really the best option.  If players are getting J2 or J3 working it is due to either a lesser oponent or Japan’s significant advantages intial strength and mobility.

[Razor]

This game do not need a bid. That is what the different starting dates are for. If you play against an experienced Allied player, then attack J1. If the Allied opponent is average, attack J2. If he is a rookie, attack J3. If he is retardet, let him attack T4. This game is so flexible, one size fits all.

[Gwlachmai]

Play a forum game as the allies then…

[Gravy]

I’m fairly new to this site and I’m interested in getting into some forum games.  How do I get started?  What is used for dice?
Sounds like a good way of getting to play some real good A&A players on this site.

[Whitmann]

We play by e-mail, and use the forum to roll the dice, it is actually a huge pain compared to playing in real life but the level of play is much better, and it’s all that’s available.

Check the forum “Play Board games section” and send someone a personal message asking for a game or simply start a topic and hope someone plays.  They can explain it.  Your first few games take lot of time but it gets quicker.

We use a map utility called ABattleMap then download and install the APP 40 Map from Flames of Europe Downloads section.

The dice are rolled inside the forum by typing the numbers of rolls for example

To roll 5 Inf 2 Rtl and 3 Arm you would type “Rolls: 3@1 4@2 3@3; Total Hits: 23@1: (2, 4, 1)4@2: (3, 3, 3, 5)3@3: (3, 6, 6)” (ingnore the “” if I just type it in with out quotes it rolls the dice eg.

Rolls: 3@1 4@2 3@3; Total Hits: 53@1: (1, 2, 5)4@2: (1, 1, 2, 6)3@3: (4, 1, 6)

Have fun!

[Whitmann]

Never mind it saw the rolls both time…

you typeInput ErrorThere was an error in your dice throw: “then” is not correct syntax.so “aaa 3@1 4@2 3@3” with the " replaced with : both start and finish will roll the dice

[Gravy]

Thanks for the help Whitmann

[Whitmann]

Razor what would you do as the Allies if two very experienced equal players are playing? for eg. Gwlachmai and I have a game going right in the forum and I am Japan, I’ve made at least one major oversight which he/she capitalized but as I am Japan it still looks good for me at teh moment, as it’s turn 4 and I’ve captured Ind and most of Asia and there is and was NOTHING more he could have done to stop it.  So… no bid means your typicaly losing with the Allies.

[Whitmann]

No problem once you get the map uitliity and dice figured out send me a personal message and if you want I’ll have you a game.

[kaufschtick]

@Whitmann:

The game clearly has been broken with out a bid, to even it up.  Anyone have any thoughts on what they would bid?

How could the designers have missed the J1 attack?

If that is the case, then there should be an official errata to the set up, IMO.

[Whitmann]

What I think they missed was a combination of the construction of a Naval Base in Kwa and Japan’s ability to simply and for little cost airsweep the UK’s units off the board if they step forward to Burma.  I think the answer is like almost all of there games previous to this a bid system to allow the game to keep up with evolving tactics.

[kaufschtick]

@Whitmann:

What I think they missed was a combination of the construction of a Naval Base in Kwa and Japan’s ability to simply and for little cost airsweep the UK’s units off the board if they step forward to Burma.  I think the answer is like almost all of there games previous to this a bid system to allow the game to keep up with evolving tactics.

Yeah, but how can you miss the intial set up attack? On J1, it’s all right there before you, it’s not like a J2 or J3 attack, where you’d have to figure in potential buys, moves and who attacks who first.

J1 is right in front of your face, right there. No speculating, no guessing as to who is buying what, or who is doing what. Blam, it’s right there in front of you.

I hope to hell this whole J1 attack thing is just a temporary fad with a solution that nobody has thought of yet. The retail on this one demands it, $90.00 bucks for a lemon isn’t going to cut it with me. :x

If they missed something, then they better un-miss it and correct it, IMO.