Help me secure an Allied victory?



  • (CHANGED NAME OF THREAD AS AXIS GAME IS OVER AND NEED NEW STRATEGY HELP/ADVICE)
    5 NOV 06

    Long (sort-of) time player.  First time ‘poster’.

    Greetings from Tucson, AZ, where for the past few months I have been slaying both my brothers at an online/play-by-email version of the “old/classic” A&A game (we follow “Russia cant attack first round” and we dont allow R&D weapons).  Recently they teamed up (one as Russia and US, one as the UK…I know, not the most fair or fun division but the oldest brother set up the game) and challenged me to defeat their Allied Command.

    I’ve beaten them both, individually, five or so times in the past months using the shuck-shuck method into Germany when I play Allies, and bum-rushing the African/Asian victory points when Im the Axis. But now theyve caught on to that…

    In this game thus far, weve got the typical Russian/German stalemate building between Eastern Europe and the Ukraine.  Russia has piled everything into Karelia and almost every territory east of Moscow is empty.  The Japs took out the US Pacific fleet and stormed India to prevent an IC there and any Allied/British-in-Asia threat. Everything is pretty cool.

    BUT my youngest brother, with the least playing experience, built an IC in Africa on the first round and, coupled with a couple US transports, has almost pushed Germany off that continent (I used my GER transports to wheel some of my offense out of his way and through it, victoriously, into the Caucasus).  I don’t feel that threatened in the long run but I want to make sure and win this game…or at least give them as much heck as possible!

    🙂

    I can give you more specific details if it helps, but I just wanted to see if anyone had thoughts or ideas.  Im thinking of just ignoring Africa for now, squeezing Russia to death and pretty much taking victory from there…

    But will the loss of Africa, and the points it gives the UK, make this tougher than I think?

    Thanks for any and all help!



  • It will make it tougher.  You should push into Asia hard with Japan to force Russia into a 2-front war.  Try to disallow the Allies shuck-shuck assistance.  Consider a Japanese attack to take the African IC (I assume in South Africa).  If you take SA and the IC, you can gain the IPC’s for Africa for Japan and place that much more pressure on Russia.  Remember you have 3 paths to Moscow.  You can go primarily for one, or you can use a combination.  You get more forces in place quickly, if you don’t try to use all three.  Don’t forget to get the IPC’s for Australia and New Zealand, and remember that you can reach Alaska in one move from EJS.  Most of the time that’s just a thorn in the side for the US, but it can’t be ignored, either.

    That’s a pretty jumbled answer, but maybe you can glean something from it.  Good-luck. 😄



  • thanks!

    (i realized, after reading my post, that I tried to sound like I knew what I was doing…my apologies. I dont know much beyond the basics Ive gleaned from reading strategies here and there. There are some very good players/opinions/things-Ive-never-thought-of, here on these boards…)

    I had my eye on Alaska. 2 JAP battleships are within striking range, along with my transports, but the UK saw this too and threw their armor and 2 more INF into it to reinforce.  This of course leaves the Allies pretty low on their shuck-shuck ability…they get the general idea of it, but theyre not moving quickly on it (low transport to troop ratio right now).  For now, they are only using three transports and landing the men in Africa. So GER has a round or two before she’s threatened from the West.

    The African/UK IC is in Kenya…only able to produce 1 new force per round (told you my brother has limited play experience…but it was still enough to contest my Desert Korps), as its sitting pretty with a FTR and 2 INF, and then one Bomber also supporting in S. Africa. Axis air power cant help there this round: GER has their air preventing a RUS breakthrough and smashing UK sea build-up (they just built a new battleship off England).  JAP FTR’s are in Manchuria, so Africa seems a round or two away.

    It leaves me with a wide-open Russia.

    Should I spread out and go for some African pressure, or an assault on Australia/NZ?
    Or throw everything quickly towards Moscow?

    I guess I havent played enough to know whether to just go for Russia, or if I for sure need to open another front somewhere and tie down some Allied forces?

    Thanks again, and ALL info i can get is greatly appreciated!



  • Lead with an INF to gain ground, unless you can moev your Japan stacks forward safely.  Otherwise, keep the stacks 1 territory back from he front as you lead with 1 INF into each vacant territory to gain the income.  And if your main stacks are 1 bhind newly captured territory, you can use your FIGs to reinforce your main stack, and keep them in range to use on any isloated Russian units that may be sent to meet you.

    Prepare to get forces in bulk to Novo as quickly as possible to threaten Russia’s backside.

    You ahve not mentioned any Allied naval forces in the Pacific.  If there are none, start working your BB’s and a TRN toward Africa, if you can do so without risking them.  Float a couple of INF to FIC each turn so that your TRN can get replacement forces after each Africa landing, and use your BB’s and INF to hammer away at Africa territories, maybe even getting that IC (which is not critical, make UK bleed off as many forces to Africa as you can to reduce the pressure on Gemany, and if you have a BOM, try to get it into range for a free SBR against that IC 🙂  As I recall, there are NO SBR limits in Classic, so you cn bom that IC for up to 6 IPC’s of damage, eventhough the territory i only worth 1.  And that will make the UK spend money on an AA gun there instead of land units or a FIG, and will allow your Africa landings to advance more quickly.



  • Thanks again!

    You are correct: the Allies are ignoring the Pacific and have no fleet (or any ships for that matter) there now.

    But, being a “newb”, let me ask this:

    is it your guys’ (and gals) opinion that if nothing is done (by my Axis) to the Allied spread in Africa it will be quite costly in the long run?

    It just seems so dangerous to expose my transports and battleships to the Allied FTR and BOM there.  I thought the idea was to just keep shuffling my JAP troops/occassional Armor (using my transports as a “bridge”) directly into the Soviet east?



  • Don;t risk your you fleet unless the gain is worthwhle (like killing that FIG with a BB shot if it is left where you can hit it with no INF screen).

    Just start flooding Asia with forces.

    Not sure, it may already be too late (depending on the skill of your allied player), but if you can get lots of INF, backed up by some FIGs and ARM in Asia, and take 2 of the3 territories in the Evenk/Novo/Kazakh perimter, then you stand a chance of distracting Moscow enough to let Germany break out… or of taking Moscow yourself if you can get enough force there.



  • Nice!

    Yes, the Allies in Asia are hurting.

    2 US INF broke-out of Sinkiang (in rd 1) and are sitting ducks in Burma. Other than them, and three red INF in the Russia, the Allies are out of Asia.  The S. Far East, Yakut, Evenki, Novo, and Kazakh are all EMPTY.

    I have 3 FTR in Manchuria (Russia destroyed themselves in the east by battering their heads against it in rd 2, and wiped out my INF in the process), 1 INF in China, and 2 INF in India. So Im not exactly a powerhouse either, but fortunately its my turn.

    Im starting to eye Australia with one transport and battleship escort, just to remove a few more UK IPC’s. Take Burma back with FTRs and transport landing (landing FTRs in India), take the empty Sinkiang with China INF, take empty Far East with with other 2 transport to prepare the Moscow push.

    See any serious flaws?



  • Do you wish to be ‘babied’ through your game?



  • Though Maddog tends to be a bit harsh…

    Have to agree with him.

    You hve been given the broad strategy outline, to get Japan involved in the Russian onsalught, and to take income from the Brits around the Indian Ocean as forces permit.

    Time to execute that strat (or another if you desire it), and to let the dice, and your new insight, lead the way…



  • Roger, will do.

    Thanks to all (constructive) posts!



  • An update:

    Took the S.Far East, Sinkiang, Persia, and Italian East Africa uncontested.  Lost a troop in taking Burma, but removed both US INF.  I’m spread a bit thin, however…

    Hoping to divert Allied resources into Africa and make them look there a couple rounds, instead of the obvious goal: Moscow.

    So far, so good!

    (side note:  Im not sure why, on these boards, a “newb” cant ask for advice and open dialogue on different opinions and tactics, to learn the game better, and instead is told “A couple replies is enough, this IS your best option, now go do it.”  Chasing away new players doesnt seem like the best way to spread the love of a game…but maybe veterans tire of ‘the same old questions’.  If so, my apologies.)

    Anyway, I appreciate the advice I did get.

    Thanks again. And good luck in all your games!



  • It is not that we run you off, but that we give you some ideas in reply to your post, and a few hundred more in other threads.

    But we are not going to play your game for you.

    So you ask, you get some posts in reply (or pointed at a thread that is relevant), and then you are on your own.

    The lessons you learn yourself as the lessons that are most valuable.



  • an update:  You lost a troop in taking burma?? WHO CARES……GET IT!!!



  • Now, consolidate your victories by getting more troops into Asia.

    Keep taking vacant territories with 1 INF to boost your income.

    And make sure that you have enough TRN to move all build units to Asia, and that you have enough FIGs and ARM to provide punch for those INF.



  • Will do.

    The US pulled a quickie and started pumping their troops into Finland.  Perhaps they see Africa for the diversion it is…either way they don’t have the follow-on forces waiting in E. Canada to lend Russia much support soon.

    (and MADDOGG, I find your post confusing.  Saying “GET IT!!!” seems redundant when I had already mentioned that I ‘got’ Burma.  Thanks for cheering me on though buddy)

    Cheers to helpful people!


  • Moderator

    One problem is, it can be hard to follow other peoples games since we can’t see the map and stuff, so it is hard to account for everything.

    Sometimes the individual battle aren’t really that important to your overall plan.  I look at a few things, Economics, Military (unit count), and Position.

    Economics is sort of obvious, you want to collect more IPC than your opponent.

    Military Units is fairly obvious as well.  Do you have more units on the board.

    Now comes the tricky one, Position.  Since about 90-95% of the games revolve around Germany-Moscow, that is where the focus should be (EE, Kar, Ukr, Cauc).

    As Germany since you aren’t going to be able to kill Moscow with-in the first 3-4 rds so you want to preserve your army and give time for Japan to build up.  This is where Afr comes into play for Germany and Asia for Japan.

    Yes, Africa is important, but you want to make sure you are not putting more troops there then you are getting IPC in return.

    Trypically you won’t be able to keep your German BB and trn alive for more than 2-3 rds anyway.

    And with the Aliied IC there, it would be better to try and exploit the Allied focus there by perhaps gaining the advantage in Ukr or Cauc, with the ability to hold them.

    Generally I’d advise you to always focus on Russia.  The Allied presence in Afr won’t do much good if the Germans have Kar and Japan has Novo.

    Ideally what you would like to do (with Ger), is move from EE to Ukr while Japan positions itself to take and hold Novo.  THEN German attacks Kar (or moves to Cauc) and Japan takes Novo and this puts Russia in the position of only being able to attack 1 army but in the process would lose Moscow to the other.  Or if they just sit back and defend now Ger and Japan can pickup loose IPC’s while building up their armies for the 1-2 punch on Mos.

    Don’t get me wrong, this can be very hard to do, but THIS should be your focus, so losing an inf here or there becomes less relevant as you gain a superior positon.

    Hope this helps.



  • Maximus,

    thanks for the advice and input.  Alot of what you suggested, and a few others here, is pretty much the way it played out.

    I just took Russia with a Jap assault!

    The Allies just wouldn’t cooperate and focus on one Axis power (after their surprise factory in Kenya, they foolishly built another in Alaska to put “pressure” on Japan…too little, too late).

    I know, most of you reading that are saying “Seems like you didnt need any advice beating that kind of poor-quality of play.”  And maybe I didnt.  But it was good to hear from some of you on strategy and looking at the big picture.

    Thanks again, and good luck in your games!



  • Weve started again…and switched roles.

    I was looking around these boards for a good Allied plan on “KillJapanFirst” since my opponents are growing quite aware of the US shuck-shuch from Canada.

    Any pointers, or can you link me to some (since Im sure there is plenty on the subject here…I just didnt find it in my search).

    Thanks!



  • This is a game that favors mass build-ups.  Mass is good.  It gives you great defence and protection for your high value pieces.  This is why inf is so important.  Many newbies get turned off by the low rolls they need to hit.  Most veterans know that inf is required to take and effectively hold contested ground.

    Thin troop defences are ineffective in holding ground.

    Thinly or undefended areas are ripe for mobility tactics and armor.

    Veterans often favor parking 4 or more Jpn trns to shuttle inf from Japan proper to mainland Asia.  This is done for a few rounds until Jpn income reaches 40+ which makes a IPC on the mainland useful for arm purchases towards the taking of Russia.

    The reason is that the IPC costs $15 and gets you 3 arm worth of reinforcements onto Asia. 
    2 transports cost $16 and are only able to transport 2 arm to Asia.

    The same IPC can only place 3 inf on to Asia, but
    the 2 trns can transport 4 inf.

    So Jpn should use trns to reinforce Asia with inf and
    IPC’s to build  armor

    Shuck-Shuck is all powerful and is way better than KJF for Allied victory.
    GBR1 buys a CV + trn.  US1 can move 2 ftrs and possibly a trn to the UK SZ with the US ftrs landing on the GBR CV.

    This sets you up to buy trns + inf /arm for a WE invasion. 
    If Ger heavily stacks on WE, 2nd ed rules allow GBR to invade Spain for $3.  The US can then reinforce.  Follow-up attack on WE should dislodge the Ger defenders in WE.



  • Start play with bids and Rus attack 1st turn when the games become too predictable.


  • 2019 Moderator

    @Avgmonkey:

    Weve started again…and switched roles.

    I was looking around these boards for a good Allied plan on “KillJapanFirst” since my opponents are growing quite aware of the US shuck-shuch from Canada.

    Any pointers, or can you link me to some (since Im sure there is plenty on the subject here…I just didnt find it in my search).

    Thanks!

    The best plan for a kill Japan first game is kill Germany and then focus on Japan. 😉


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Nah, my bro,in classic, always did a US build of 1 battleship, 1 fighter on round 1.  From then on he built a carrier or battleship every round until he had 3 carriers, 3 or 4 battleships then focused on transports. (ovbviously japan’s navy was nothing but a fond memory at that point!)



  • Meanwhile ger thrived. Well at least the us controlled the pacific ocean eh!



  • It is so easy to defend against a US fleet… Because you know they are comming… So you can easily buy 4-5 subs at that time + your 2 BB’s, CV and planes => US fleet history… So you just wasted like 120 IPC’s for a useless fleet 😛



  • 4-5 even is more than I’d put on it. I’d maybe get a couple, but focus my defense on mainly bombers and transports. Since I usually already have the transports sitting around (because I always get at least 6+ transports for Japan before ever building an IC), I can just focus on buying bombers. If the US has spent several rounds of purchasing on a west coast navy, not only will Germany be doing quite well, but they will be hard pressed to get anywhere near my transports, because if they do then I send off my transports as cannon fodder and use my airforce to do the heavy hitting. It may take me a round to replenish my tranports but in the meanwhile my expanded airforce is still useable. Or if the US keeps out of range of my transports, then I say let them use that huge expensive navy to island hop while I press towards Moscow, with less US forces helping Russia defend.


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