Is anyone having success with a G2 DOW on USSR?

  • Is anyone having success with a G2 Russia first approach?

    I recently concluded a face to face game with a G2 DOW the allied player chose to concede after turn 5. In part due to time, and secondly due to the allied position. I think I was 3-4 turns from an actual capture of Moscow. I hadn’t brainstormed it too thoroughly, I knew I wanted to test a few concepts based on an experience I had playing Kobu in the forums.

    Germany and USSR had the same unit counts with Germany trading then holding Ukraine with “THE” stack and a minor factory(built G4) staged in western Ukraine turn 5. Although I traded and finally seized Novgorod (G5) using only transports and the implied threat from “THE” stack, my main effort/plan was to stage USSR first with 4 turns of slow movers, to be reinforced with forward capture/deployed factories in the South. USSR was able to “Dance” with “THE” stack causing “THE” stack to move backward to E.Poland G4 before the final forward thrust to W.Ukraine G5. With 2 facilities I am able to plant 6 units to Moscow’s 6-4 by that point as the Key is a Japanese Scorpion assault (North “Pincer” meets up with a Center “Tail” and South “Pincer” China thrust at Kazakhstan on turn 6). Italy was poised to meet Japan at Volgograd turn 7.

    The board set up supported a turn 6 with USSR stuck in Moscow, unable to afford trading infantry for the 1 IPC zones around it.

    Key to this tactic were Three Objectives:
    Objective 1: 3 transports, DD, Sub save 2 G1; DOW USSR turn 2 with Germany; build fleet G2 and 10 land units for 3 rounds, fleet and 6-9 land units ever after using Italy to hold Europe. Purpose of German Navy: force US to build Naval units in  Atlantic instead of transports and effectively deny a UK fleet until US arrival in force. This permits Italy alone to garrison Europe.

    Objective 2: DOW USSR J1. J5 withdraw Pacific fleet to a solid core sz6 (8 carrier force-buy 2 J4;3- J5 ), deploy all air units to meet up with Army group Center, abdicate China and South Pacific, J6 move fleet toward West USA Convoy duty using turn 5 and later to build on Japan. Surrendering Pacific board for Moscow crush. (Anzac and China will get big, but they are too far from Moscow to help, India may support USSR turn 6 or later)

    Objective 3: Italy seize Eygpt mid game (turn 5) continue to transport 4 units a round, and starting turn 3 stack units in Europe, send fleet to meet German fleet at Gibraltar. Take Caucasus I6 as a landing site for Japanese air force.

    “THE” stack movement path: E.Poland G2,W.Ukraine G3, E.Poland G4, W.Ukraine G5, Likely hold station G6, Likely Bryansk G7* Jap Air force could Land (19 units this game).
    Note: [Ukraine taken G4-via Bulgaria G1, Romania G2, Bessarabia G3 expeditionary force]

    Japanese “Scorpion” assault results:
    Army group North: 18 units potential/ 6 units actual game played(1 In, 3 Ar, 1M, 1T-Lost 1 ftr AAgun J2)
    12 infantry 1 Mech, 1 armor, 3 artillery in the North (This game we traded at Buryatia J2 because USSR mistakenly stacked in Sakha R1-did not expect J1 DOW).
    Army group South: 14 units
    9 infantry, 5 artillery via AhwheJ1, Kweichow,Szechwan,Sikang,Kazakhstan J5.(note 5 out of the 14 starting infantry were used trading Yunan twice.)
    Army group Center: 9 units + 19 air units J5 (1 ftr lost J2)
    2 inf (1 lost against china), 2 armor, 5 mech via JeholJ2,Chahar,Suiyuyan,Kansu,Novosibirsk J6(Korean Minor/transports at Jehol J2+J3)

    Note: This concept proved it needs further review and refinement before I can proclaim it a viable approach due to a few allied mis-steps. (USSR lost 18 units that could have garrisoned Moscow-namely) Surprise is wonderful that way 🙂
    Key observations this game:

    Using Subs, and 2 carriers with 2-3 destroyers, UK was not able to leave its Island in the Atlantic until America could arrive, this game America went heavy Pacific which meant UK was a non factor in the Atlantic.

    When it became clear on J5 that Japan was abdicating its board, the US had already over committed in the Pacific and USSR’s fate was sealed.

    By turn 5, Italy had 20+ land units garrisoning Europe + 10 units in Egypt, they only built 1 transport and nothing but land units whole game, fleet was intact (something allies can do differently). Italy sent 2 inf, 1 armor, and 3 air to W. Ukraine I4.

    Japan had 29 land units with 19 air units poised to secure Volgograd J6. With a fleet of 2 BB, 2 CA, 8 Carriers(empty), 4 DDs, and 5 transports(loaded)-[16 units/26 hit points] that were poised to set sail to the WUSA via the North route to Avoid the US fleet at Caroline (BB, 4 carriers, cruiser, 3 destoryers, 3 subs + 6-8 air units-[20 units/25 hit points] and 2 Anzac naval assets CA,DD.) US was building heavy in Atlantic U3 and later, because of a superior German/Italian navy. Because of the US position at Caroline, a Japan sz1 move J6 takes 2 US turns to catch up, permitting a 3 DD screen to buy an extra round. With the transports loaded, US must build land units US 6 or West coast fleet, giving Germany 1 more round of navy to maintain naval superiority until turn 8 or later, when they redeploy either to EUSA or sz 112 from Gibraltar.

    US fleet was going to be pinned in EUSA waters by the German blockade threat until turns 7 or later. (In our game they stayed at New Brunswick when the game ended on turn 5.)

    USSR was at times able to attack an equal sized or slightly smaller German force, but could not trade with Germany because of the 48 Japanese units in theater. Germany was going to hit USSR first, knocking it down to a bite size piece like a mother Condor feeding its baby- Japan. With 29 land units, the ability to build 3 units unit Japan falls (not likely for to be until the game ends in Europe) and 19-20 air units, if 60-70 Germans engage 65-75 Russians, Japan can gobble up a Moscow with 30 units or less.

    Because of the “implied” threat from the 3 transports, “THE” stack, and my Finnish garrison, Russia did trade units over Novgorod because they were forced to leave it to respond to the South moving Germans,  probably consuming 10 units, as Germany had few units in the North, but I did seize Novgorod for good G5, I earned the NO G3-G5. In the end, I used up my Finnish forces plus maybe 4 units from Europe and USSR probably lost 10 units in that theater while I still got the NO every round but G1 + G2.
    Any thoughts on this plan?
    I realize many variables exist, China if they knew my plan could have attacked 14 Japanese land units C4 with 12 inf and 1 fighter to knock down my force. India could have went Africa first, letting China die to what looked like a Japanese China first crush. US could have left Japan alone, which permits an out of control Japan as I can defeat India/Anzac naval forces without planes(ok, maybe I can spare 4 from Moscow if needed). Giving the US a 6 city win to worry about later game.

  • I can not participate now in discussion - it is very occupied. I will be released - I will necessarily express the opinion on this question.

  • Well done on a good plan of attack.

    The plan has several good points but it appears to rely on two points;

    1. A surprise attack on the Russians on J1. Will this work more than once? Won’t the Russians just pull back on R1 from now on?

    2. The attack on Egypt seemed less detailed than the attack on Russia. Can you hold Cairo, your last Victory City in Europe if you do not have London, even if the Americans make mild push?

    Likewise if the Japanese go all out for Russia then they leave themselves open to assault from India, Australia and America. If the Axis do not win on victory cities then can they win the domination game? I think not if the Allies have Cairo and most of Asia.

    I am not saying your plan will not work, especially if it is well executed. But the game designer has changed this version of the game to make the combined German/Japanese attack on Russia much harder. That was part of the reason for the bigger board with more territories and adding China as its own country with separate units. In Revised and the Anniversary Edition China was only two territories I believe. A common tactic was to ignore the Western Allies and go all out for Russia. It worked a lot too. Now it still can be done, but it a good bit more difficult. If the Allies held Cairo and the Dutch East Indies, I would play on as the Allies even if Moscow fell.

  • Yes I have seen it on our board many times 2-3 of our 5-6 players dont go with a sea lion move its all Barbarossa. I would say it is very effective at having a better than 50% chance of Axis victory
      Round one deal with the Royal Navy and set up Italy to follow up Germany with reinforcements
      Round two hit Russia hard with Germany and Italy  oh yea Japan has to help
      Keep some Navy to deal with any threats the Allies come up with and for convoy raids

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