• So what wild is saying is if he saw a bearded man come out of the clouds, throwing bolts of lightning around and yelling loud things, and told him to go kill someone, Wild would kill him.

    Hey Yanny, if you were chilling out back and some dude riding a cloud raining lighting from his bear hands told me to do something, i rekon i would do it. Any person who can rain a few 1,000 volts down on me can boss me around. lol


  • @Wild2000:

    In response to F_alk, you are correct, you can easily find a god that will theoretically reward you for living the lifestyle it desires. The question becomes, does this god of your choosing actually have the power to reward? If it does, then I have no debate with you. It is all between you and your god.

    Well, if you ask me how i can tell wether my god can reward me or not… i bet you can enlighten me on that and give the criteria a god has to meet to be powerful enough to reward in the afterlife.
    How can you doubt my god can, but be sure of yours?

    I know some of you believe that if there is an afterlife, then all that matters is that I lead a good life. I have even read in other threads someone saying that if there is a god, then hopefully it will look at my life and judge me on that. However, this is a risky gamble.

    But if they are right, then what have I lost? I still lead a good life and would be judged the same way they are. So in a sense, I am covered under both scenarios, whereas they are gambling. I have no problem with anyone willing to take that risk. But in the end, what am I out?

    No, there is a small difference. I will come to that later.
    To remember then:
    People judge you not only by your deeds but also by your reasons.

    I do not understand why I am a potential murderer. The ONLY way I would do something like this is if God revealed Himself to me is some profound matter. Everything that I have read and learned about God would not make me believe that something like this would never happen.

    When you would kill because of an order, without thinking further, then i call that potential murderer.
    I know this sounds harsh, and don’t want to go too far off-topic, but just think of the following:
    If you grew up learning that it’s not “god” who is supreme, but all that matters is your “race” and its benefits, and the “voice of your race”, personified by whoever, says that the “others” are like plague and have to be extinguished… would you go and kill the others, because the “voice” said so?
    For the later point:
    You say that ther is a chance where you would stop thinking for yourself and would do whatever you are told to do.

    Also, sorry but, I have never heard of any woman claiming she aborted an unborn baby because god told her to do it. Before I made any judgments about her decision, I would want to know who her god was first.

    What does that matter, if it was Allah, Jahwe, Zeus, Thor, Rama, Cuetzacotl or whatever…. if it is her god, then you are not to debate with her (as you said above yourself).

    But now to my main point:
    @Wild2000:

    But I do not think it should matter what it is God is asking me to do. I do not believe that I am in a position to question Him. If God asked me to do anything, I would do it. That’s what following God means. It does not mean that I can pick and choose what I think I should do.

    @Yanny:

    So, in other words, you are a willing slave to God.

    So, do you think you have something like a free will? It doesn’t sound like that, because you would throw it away under certain circumstances. Even if you do “good”, because your “god wants you to do so”, then you still don’t do good because you want it from your own.
    Your humanity is then defined only by your god, if your god was different, you would behave different.
    And people ducking to more powerful beings are not an example of people i respect deeply, no matter how much good they do doing that. There are too many examples in hisotry that show that this kind of behavior can lead to most inhuman behavior.

    To cut it very short: From what you have written here, i suppose that you, if your were born in germany in 1929, would have taken up the gun even in the last minute.


  • @F_alk:

    and i bet you don’t believe any woman who claims that god told her to abort her unborn child, right?

    What women has ever claimed this?


  • Falk, about your contentions about which god, Half the Earth’s population have the same God.


  • And a good billion believe in No God (Buddist + Athiest + Agnostic). A Good 950 Million believe in Many Gods.


  • @Wild2000:

    I agree with CC that I do not believe that God would ask me to kill - even though He asked Abraham and the Isrealites to do it

    You mean the Isrealites were right to kill people, when they massacred the Midianites ? No you are right, they were not people anyway these Midianites, they were not monotheist, we don’t care if their womans and their childrens dies; they are not people, they were evil non-monotheist. God is all loving, so he decide these people should be killed, because if God did’nt kill them NOW, these Midianites will have childrens; more people to Hell, it’s pretty bad, why not just kill them now, it’s pure humanism.

    And a good billion believe in No God (Buddist + Athiest + Agnostic). A Good 950 Million believe in Many Gods.

    euh… i doupt that. That much polytheist ? You probably count Hinduism as polytheist to get a number that high, and they are not polytheist.


  • Don’t Hindu believe in a pantheon of gods?


  • @Yanny:

    Don’t Hindu believe in a pantheon of gods?

    As far as i know they believe in ONE god, with many faces.


  • Ok, my bad.


  • @yourbuttocks:

    @F_alk:

    and i bet you don’t believe any woman who claims that god told her to abort her unborn child, right?

    What women has ever claimed this?

    Does that matter? It was meant as something to think: Would you believe such a woman?


  • @yourbuttocks:

    Falk, about your contentions about which god, Half the Earth’s population have the same God.

    Well, ask a Jew wether JC is the messiah, or a Jew or Christian wether Muhammed is a Prophet of their god.

    Only the Muslims say that these three faiths believe in the same god. If it was the same God for all three of them, why do they follow different rules to serve it, and why are they sure that they are right, and the other ones are heretics?


  • @FinsterniS:

    @Yanny:

    Don’t Hindu believe in a pantheon of gods?

    As far as i know they believe in ONE god, with many faces.

    I have never understood Hinduism…. they have different faces/personifications of a god (or different gods), with each different temples, and they believe in being reborn into a different caste depending on how they did in this live… with the final goal to go into something Nirvana-like? Is that true this far? Do we have any Hindu among us, who could answer and/or explain?


  • @F_alk:

    Only the Muslims say that these three faiths believe in the same god.

    I know the Catholic Church teaches that Muslims and Jews are our cousins in faith, because we all believe in the God of Abraham even though we may interpet Him differently.


  • Well, I think what Falk is saying is that Muslims actually believe that Jesus (and Jewish figures) were prophets, and were involved in advancing their religion. The Christians and Jews do not believe Mohammad was a prophet.


  • @yourbuttocks:

    @F_alk:

    Only the Muslims say that these three faiths believe in the same god.

    I know the Catholic Church teaches that Muslims and Jews are our cousins in faith, because we all believe in the God of Abraham even though we may interpet Him differently.

    Dang.

    Where can I find that religious leader?
    During my confirmation, I was pretty much told that the only true religion was Christianity, and that all the others had no basis. Apparently (according to our religious-ed teacher, who is an idiot) no other prophecies have actually been fullfilled. This can’t be true, can it?


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    @yourbuttocks:

    @F_alk:

    Only the Muslims say that these three faiths believe in the same god.

    I know the Catholic Church teaches that Muslims and Jews are our cousins in faith, because we all believe in the God of Abraham even though we may interpet Him differently.

    Dang.

    Where can I find that religious leader?
    During my confirmation, I was pretty much told that the only true religion was Christianity, and that all the others had no basis. Apparently (according to our religious-ed teacher, who is an idiot) no other prophecies have actually been fullfilled. This can’t be true, can it?

    That doesn’t surprise me, it’s been coming out of the church for years. Just remember this - if Judaism has no basis, then Christianity does not either because Christianity came from Judaism originally. The Catholic Chruch believed for years that Jews were partners for hte devil and worshipped Satan and there are still Catholics and other Christians out there who still believe it.

    The biggest difference between Judaism and Islam (from what I’ve studied of it) and Christianity is that only in Judaism can followers of the other two faiths or any faith (inlcuding no faith) can still go to heaven. According to Christianity, I’m damned to hell for not believing in Jesus even though I worship God.


  • @Yanny:

    Well, I think what Falk is saying is that Muslims actually believe that Jesus (and Jewish figures) were prophets, and were involved in advancing their religion. The Christians and Jews do not believe Mohammad was a prophet.

    True, but dont forget that there are some clear statements in the Koran that talk of how horrible the Jews are and how Allah should curse them. Islam, though it claims to accept Judaism and Christianity’s prophets, does not particularly accept the followers of the religions. This is probably due to the fact that Mohammed’s new religion was rejected by the Jews living in Arabia and he felt sour, sour enough to go to war with all of them and exile many. There was one town that he killed off all the men and forced the women and children into slavery. He wasn’t a man filled with brotherly love.

    One of the many things that sets Christianity and Judaism apart is the belief in God. In Judaism, God cannot have a child because God is beyond this corporial world. God is not a physical entity that we can comprehend and that lives in the unvierse. God does not have a physical self nor does God have the appearance of a physical being.


  • True, but dont forget that there are some clear statements in the Koran that talk of how horrible the Jews are and how Allah should curse them. Islam, though it claims to accept Judaism and Christianity’s prophets, does not particularly accept the followers of the religions. This is probably due to the fact that Mohammed’s new religion was rejected by the Jews living in Arabia and he felt sour, sour enough to go to war with all of them and exile many…

    (No offense intended) This is complete bullshit. There were few Jews in Arabia. Arabia was inhabited (hence the name) by Arabs. All Mohammad did was unite the Arabs. Very little of this involved war. Most of his time was probably spent teaching and influencing people like Jesus.

    Lets list some Jewish/Christian religious atrocities.

    Jewish,

    Extreme religious percecution around the birth of Christ. Eventually led to the torture of Jesus, and hunting down of his followers.

    Christians (oh this could be a lot longer…)

    Spanish Inquisition (Millions killed by fanatical and church-endorsed murderers, who had the complete support of the populous).
    Salem Witch trials (see Spanish Inquisition, but 19 dead)
    The complete anihilation of every civilization in South America by Spanish Zealots.
    The Crusades

    need I go on?

    Religion itself is a deadly force. Every single religion in the history of the world has caused death, destruction, and has left a lasting scar upon this planet.

    Muslims, for a thousand years, were the only real force behind peace, education, and the advancement of mankind. Singling them out as a violent religion is nothing short of hipocracy.


  • “Every religion”… No, it’s totally false. You’ll rarely see a polytheist killing other because they have another religion, nor torture people or menace them. Also buddhism is still a pretty good exemple of a peacefull religion (even if they are “evil” atheist). Take Japan for exemple, their religion was Shitoism, it was a religion with full of spirits, called Kami (or Kama, something like that), when the buddhist came to Japan, their was no real problem, and the two relgion did’nt fight together, they just merge. When christianism came, well, there was some problem. Sure religion is pointless, but they were not all bloody.

    Also for christians crime you could add an important one; “humiliation/extermination of pagans & Jews”, and for Judaism you could add; “extermination of pagans”.


  • @Yanny:

    True, but dont forget that there are some clear statements in the Koran that talk of how horrible the Jews are and how Allah should curse them. Islam, though it claims to accept Judaism and Christianity’s prophets, does not particularly accept the followers of the religions. This is probably due to the fact that Mohammed’s new religion was rejected by the Jews living in Arabia and he felt sour, sour enough to go to war with all of them and exile many…

    (No offense intended) This is complete bullshit. There were few Jews in Arabia. Arabia was inhabited (hence the name) by Arabs. All Mohammad did was unite the Arabs. Very little of this involved war. Most of his time was probably spent teaching and influencing people like Jesus.

    Lets list some Jewish/Christian religious atrocities.

    Jewish,

    Extreme religious percecution around the birth of Christ. Eventually led to the torture of Jesus, and hunting down of his followers.

    Christians (oh this could be a lot longer…)

    Spanish Inquisition (Millions killed by fanatical and church-endorsed murderers, who had the complete support of the populous).
    Salem Witch trials (see Spanish Inquisition, but 19 dead)
    The complete anihilation of every civilization in South America by Spanish Zealots.
    The Crusades

    need I go on?

    Religion itself is a deadly force. Every single religion in the history of the world has caused death, destruction, and has left a lasting scar upon this planet.

    Muslims, for a thousand years, were the only real force behind peace, education, and the advancement of mankind. Singling them out as a violent religion is nothing short of hipocracy.

    Yanny, you really are clueless. The Spanish Inquisition was against those Jews who had converted to Christianity so they would not be expelled from Spain. They were called Marranos or swine. You missed MANY MANY other persecutions but that’s ok if it suits your thesis.

    Jews have lived in Arabia since biblical times along with the pagan Arabs of those times. I’ll find you the source so you can learn a little something.

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