adolph nuttin up :)
Religion, Why?
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In response to Fin’s (sarcastic? sardonic? unwarranted? impossible?) plea for me to define “evil forces”, the closest i can come is to suggest that these “force” people to do evil things. What are evil things? Well, i guess close would be actions which purposefully hurt people in the long-term (i hurt people in the short-term out of necessity) or forces which act purposefully against God. In this way, people who go out and purposefully kill people might well be guided or lead by “evil forces”, and Fin for his work against God might well also be considered an evil force. At the same time, due to the absurdities of his “religion”, i do not consider him to be much of a “force”. :P
Also although i do not believe atheists to be evil, if they work expressly to undo God’s work then they might be considered to be acting on behalf of an evil force (if unwittingly, but of course they could never realize this).
But of course these are the ramblings of a man up all night delivering babies. Speaking of which, i do not see God ordering us to kill a baby/child/person. If so, then i may have to reexamine my beliefs (and most likely my sanity).
Also a woman did kill her child believing it to be Satan. I guess one might suggest that she was acting according to “God”, although she may not have done so if her psychosis was properly controlled with the Risperidone she was supposed to be taking.
bed time. -
plea for me to define “evil forces”, the closest i can come is to suggest that these “force” people to do evil things. What are evil things? Well, i guess close would be actions which purposefully hurt people in the long-term (i hurt people in the short-term out of necessity) or forces which act purposefully against God.
Ok… then i am not evil, because i hurt nobody, but i could be considered “evil” because i “act” against god, in the way that i want a logical explanation for “god”. But refusing religion is not evil right ?
Fin for his work against God might well also be considered an evil force
How asking for logical answer can be considered evil ?
At the same time, due to the absurdities of his “religion”, i do not consider him to be much of a “force”.
What absurdities ?
I never said it was unimportant what is done in the world today.
The conception of Heaven and Hell, within the fixist “theory”, was often a good reason in history for conservatism (feudalism), why should we change ? god make the world perfect ! I don’t say it’s what you said it was just a common believe in the middle age/before lamarck/darwin. Personally i don’t believe in a life after death, and even if there was we have thing to do HERE.
However, this is a risky gamble. But if they are right, then what have I lost? I still lead a good life and would be judged the same way they are.
With all the religion out there it’s always a risky gamble if you believe only ONE is right.
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So what wild is saying is if he saw a bearded man come out of the clouds, throwing bolts of lightning around and yelling loud things, and told him to go kill someone, Wild would kill him.
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So what wild is saying is if he saw a bearded man come out of the clouds, throwing bolts of lightning around and yelling loud things, and told him to go kill someone, Wild would kill him.
that’s a bit presumptive and makes several assumptions.
- assuming we believe God to be “a bearded man” (because of Michelangelo’s work?)
- that “he” throws lightning bolts around (could happen . . .) - if he could, then why would he order Wild around?
- the yelling? well, if “he” were yelling, then people other than Wild might hear and jump to the crusade
- assumes that your crazed (g)od resembles in anyway the God that Wild (and I) worship
- assumes that he’d ask us to kill anyone
- note: i think many Christians buy into the “small voice in the wilderness” over the torrential ravings of a powerful lunatic.
Fin - an extremely sleep deprived man tried to make light of your bizaare question. pay no attention to him.
also i have read the posts - you have done things other than simply ask for logical arguments for God. So has your loser-friend nietzsche. -
Was just throwing a little humour into the fray :)
I’ll rephrase that… If your God (and you knew it was your God) came to you and said “Kill that guy”, according to what Wild just said, he would.
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:lol:
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So, in other words, you are a willing slave to God.
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So what wild is saying is if he saw a bearded man come out of the clouds, throwing bolts of lightning around and yelling loud things, and told him to go kill someone, Wild would kill him.
Hey Yanny, if you were chilling out back and some dude riding a cloud raining lighting from his bear hands told me to do something, i rekon i would do it. Any person who can rain a few 1,000 volts down on me can boss me around. lol
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In response to F_alk, you are correct, you can easily find a god that will theoretically reward you for living the lifestyle it desires. The question becomes, does this god of your choosing actually have the power to reward? If it does, then I have no debate with you. It is all between you and your god.
Well, if you ask me how i can tell wether my god can reward me or not… i bet you can enlighten me on that and give the criteria a god has to meet to be powerful enough to reward in the afterlife.
How can you doubt my god can, but be sure of yours?I know some of you believe that if there is an afterlife, then all that matters is that I lead a good life. I have even read in other threads someone saying that if there is a god, then hopefully it will look at my life and judge me on that. However, this is a risky gamble.
But if they are right, then what have I lost? I still lead a good life and would be judged the same way they are. So in a sense, I am covered under both scenarios, whereas they are gambling. I have no problem with anyone willing to take that risk. But in the end, what am I out?
No, there is a small difference. I will come to that later.
To remember then:
People judge you not only by your deeds but also by your reasons.I do not understand why I am a potential murderer. The ONLY way I would do something like this is if God revealed Himself to me is some profound matter. Everything that I have read and learned about God would not make me believe that something like this would never happen.
When you would kill because of an order, without thinking further, then i call that potential murderer.
I know this sounds harsh, and don’t want to go too far off-topic, but just think of the following:
If you grew up learning that it’s not “god” who is supreme, but all that matters is your “race” and its benefits, and the “voice of your race”, personified by whoever, says that the “others” are like plague and have to be extinguished… would you go and kill the others, because the “voice” said so?
For the later point:
You say that ther is a chance where you would stop thinking for yourself and would do whatever you are told to do.Also, sorry but, I have never heard of any woman claiming she aborted an unborn baby because god told her to do it. Before I made any judgments about her decision, I would want to know who her god was first.
What does that matter, if it was Allah, Jahwe, Zeus, Thor, Rama, Cuetzacotl or whatever…. if it is her god, then you are not to debate with her (as you said above yourself).
But now to my main point:
@Wild2000:But I do not think it should matter what it is God is asking me to do. I do not believe that I am in a position to question Him. If God asked me to do anything, I would do it. That’s what following God means. It does not mean that I can pick and choose what I think I should do.
So, in other words, you are a willing slave to God.
So, do you think you have something like a free will? It doesn’t sound like that, because you would throw it away under certain circumstances. Even if you do “good”, because your “god wants you to do so”, then you still don’t do good because you want it from your own.
Your humanity is then defined only by your god, if your god was different, you would behave different.
And people ducking to more powerful beings are not an example of people i respect deeply, no matter how much good they do doing that. There are too many examples in hisotry that show that this kind of behavior can lead to most inhuman behavior.To cut it very short: From what you have written here, i suppose that you, if your were born in germany in 1929, would have taken up the gun even in the last minute.
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@F_alk:
and i bet you don’t believe any woman who claims that god told her to abort her unborn child, right?
What women has ever claimed this?
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Falk, about your contentions about which god, Half the Earth’s population have the same God.
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And a good billion believe in No God (Buddist + Athiest + Agnostic). A Good 950 Million believe in Many Gods.
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I agree with CC that I do not believe that God would ask me to kill - even though He asked Abraham and the Isrealites to do it
You mean the Isrealites were right to kill people, when they massacred the Midianites ? No you are right, they were not people anyway these Midianites, they were not monotheist, we don’t care if their womans and their childrens dies; they are not people, they were evil non-monotheist. God is all loving, so he decide these people should be killed, because if God did’nt kill them NOW, these Midianites will have childrens; more people to Hell, it’s pretty bad, why not just kill them now, it’s pure humanism.
And a good billion believe in No God (Buddist + Athiest + Agnostic). A Good 950 Million believe in Many Gods.
euh… i doupt that. That much polytheist ? You probably count Hinduism as polytheist to get a number that high, and they are not polytheist.
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Don’t Hindu believe in a pantheon of gods?
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Don’t Hindu believe in a pantheon of gods?
As far as i know they believe in ONE god, with many faces.
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Ok, my bad.
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@F_alk:
and i bet you don’t believe any woman who claims that god told her to abort her unborn child, right?
What women has ever claimed this?
Does that matter? It was meant as something to think: Would you believe such a woman?
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Falk, about your contentions about which god, Half the Earth’s population have the same God.
Well, ask a Jew wether JC is the messiah, or a Jew or Christian wether Muhammed is a Prophet of their god.
Only the Muslims say that these three faiths believe in the same god. If it was the same God for all three of them, why do they follow different rules to serve it, and why are they sure that they are right, and the other ones are heretics?
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Don’t Hindu believe in a pantheon of gods?
As far as i know they believe in ONE god, with many faces.
I have never understood Hinduism…. they have different faces/personifications of a god (or different gods), with each different temples, and they believe in being reborn into a different caste depending on how they did in this live… with the final goal to go into something Nirvana-like? Is that true this far? Do we have any Hindu among us, who could answer and/or explain?
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@F_alk:
Only the Muslims say that these three faiths believe in the same god.
I know the Catholic Church teaches that Muslims and Jews are our cousins in faith, because we all believe in the God of Abraham even though we may interpet Him differently.
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