Enjoyed that, thanks.
War on Drugs
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@cystic:
I dare say that more Americans than you know do have a problem.
Where are you getting this information from?
oh, a wild guess.
Do you actually believe that you know of all of your friends, acquaintances and family which of them do/have done pot and which haven’t?
I’m guessing more than you think. -
Just becuase people do marijuana doesn’t mean you can use that as an excuse to legalize it! I don’t care who is doing it, it doesn’t make it any less dangerous!
Here are some interesting facts about marijuana that I picked up, take a look:
1.) The illegal drug industry ranks in size with Mobil Oil as our second largest business – only Exxon is larger.
2.) Cocaine is now the leading cash flow drug a 26-32 billion a year.
3.) The U.S. Spends almost as much money on marijuana – 18-26 billion a year – as its spends on import oil. Marijuana is California’s largest cash crop.
4.) The drug paraphernalia business was a 3 billion a year industry in 1979.
5.) This year, among American high school seniors, one in 11 is a daily user of marijuana.
6.) Today’s cultivated marijuana has an average potency of 4% THC – the major psychoactive ingredient – as compared to the marijuana of the 60’s which had an average potency of .25% THC. Today’s marijuana is 10 to 15 times stronger than that of the 60’s.
7.) THC remains in the fatty tissues of body cells, especially in the brain and the reproductive organs. Even a week after marijuana joint is smoked, 30-50% of the THC is still in the body in active form. It takes 3 to 6 weeks to eliminate all THC from the body. More frequent use means that the user is never drug-free, in fact, there is a gradual accumulation of the drug in the fatty tissues of the body.
8.)There are over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana does to the various systems of the body. Not one study give marijuana a clean bill of health.
9.) Marijuana is a complex material containing 421 chemicals, 60 of which are found only in marijuana.
10.) Five typical marijuana cigarettes have the same cancer-causing capability as 112 tobacco cigarettes. Marijuana tar has more carcinogens than tobacco tar, and the smoke is inhaled more deeply, further aggravating the lungs and the respiratory system.
11.) Reaction time for the motor skills, such as driving, is reduced by 41% after smoking one joint and by 63% after smoking 2 joints.
Marijuana use reduces or alters the fundamental cellular defense against disease. White blood cell count is reduced 41% from normal levels with regular use of the drug.12.) THC has been found to interfere with the transmission of brain messages; EEG’s of regular users exhibit abnormal brain wave patterns.
DRUGS AND ALCOHOL IN THE WORKPLACE
1.) 10% of all workers have an alcohol problem2.) 6% of all workers have a drug problem
3.) 5,000 work related fatalities yearly are due to drugs and alcohol
4.) 1 million work related serious injuries are due to drugs and alcohol yearly
5.) Cost to industries due to alcohol abuse is $77 billion per year
6.) Cost to industries due to drug abuse is $27 billion per year
7.) Lost productivity due to drugs and alcohol is $44 billion per year
Alcohol and Drug Abusers:
are late 3 times more than other employees
are 2 1/2 times more likely to leave work early, take time oft, be absent
use 3 times more sick days
have 4 times as many on the job accidents
use 8 times as many hospital days
Assisting an employee who has a drug probem is more cost effective than hiring a new employee. The firing/hiring process is expensive and there is no guarantee that the new employee will not suffer a similar problem.
60% of all employees can be successfully rehabilitated if they seek treatment. This reduces the absentee rate from 8% down to 3%. -
Not one of these reasons convinces me that those who use marijuana should be thrown in jail.
They are quite good reasons for stringent regulation of the sale and production of the drug, particularly where minors and motor vehical use is concerned (for that matter i think drugs with ephidrine should be better controlled as well), but not one of them is a good reason for my dozen or so neighbours, friends and family members to go to jail. Every person i know who consumes or has consumed marijuana is a very productive member of society. In jail they would suck tax money out of the system, they would not contribute to society, and nothing in the world would change for the better. (mind you, this is a small sample, but surely you get my point).
And where is my support from all you potheads who posted in the “game of HIGH adventure” thread?
TG, Chris, Xi - i’m looking at you guys. -
Marijuana is much more dangerous than insulin shots, silly Crypt. Fast food doesn’t destroy your memory, your motor skills, weaken your immune system, or give you throat cancer.
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Marijuana is much more dangerous than insulin shots, silly Crypt. Fast food doesn’t destroy your memory, your motor skills, weaken your immune system, or give you throat cancer.
Marijuana is not necessarily more dangerous than insulin shots. As i said - they can lead to hypoglycemia VERY readily - even if taken “properly” according to prescription and under controlled circumstances.
Fast food can cause athero/arteriosclerosis which can lead to: 1) strokes - causing memory loss as well as other cognitive defects as well as loss of limb function and death, 2) myocardial infarction - which can kill you, renal artery stenosis - hypertension, kidney damage. This is not including the nitrates and other chemicals, as well as cancer causing agents in burgers and the french fries.
Also casual recreational use does not necessarily lead to the effects you mentioned. Maybe, but not necessarily.
Why am i defending marijuana use? I hate it, and i hate when my friends use it. -
LOL! I never thought I’d hear the day when somebody compared marijuana to fast food. Can anyone say “Bill Mahr”…?
Marijuana affects you negatively regardless of how much you take. You are affected if one way or another. Fast food leads to long term illness, and eating a hamburger will not necessarily make you more dangerous! C’mon Crypt…let’s be realistic here…
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Yeah, Crypt, you’re coming up against two conservatives (conservative at least on the drug issue) in Seattle. Conservatives have to be an especially tough breed to oppose abortion/drugs up here. Are you in Jsa IZ?
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That’s right, you know what they say…
“If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.”Ok, so maybe I have no heart. But I’m sure as hell not gonna waste my time being a liberal! :lol:
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Yeah, Crypt, you’re coming up against two conservatives (conservative at least on the drug issue) in Seattle. Conservatives have to be an especially tough breed to oppose abortion/drugs up here. Are you in Jsa IZ?
Jsa IZ?
i don’t know where/what that is, so prolly not. -
Crypt, he was asking me, IZ, if I was in JSA (Junior Statesmen of America). The answer is no YB.
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once more i am reminded that i’m not as smart or important as i think i am.
:oops: -
See as Crypt having to fight a debate two against one, I like to help out my friends from “Up North.”
Don’t forget car crashes, terrorist funding, increased use among peers, and damage to fetus while pregnant…marijauna use is not quite the “victimless” crime you so gallanty portray.
First I like to clear up whatever notions you had about “drug trafficking.” The reason why drug lords (which do funnel money to terrorism) are filthy rich is because those very drugs are illegal. With drugs illegal, the price of marijuana skyrockets, given an excuse for many to peruse this profitable drug trade. It also gives the drug lords the financial backing to influence the corruption in their countries government Money is exacerbated out of America to pay for these drugs, crippling our international balance of trade. With drugs legal, that money stays inside the United States. If you want to see a classic example of this, compare prohibition with Al Capone. As for the never-ending drug war, we are on the losing end of it. If Evo Morales does get elected in Bolivia (very strong chance of this), expect US’s billion-dollar program of “eradication” to go to waste.
BTW-Why do people keep listing alcohol has they’re argument for legalizing marijauna? I can’t understand this. Stick to the topic. You can’t justify legalizing something just because there are “worse things” out there. That makes absolutely no sense. Find a better arguement and make a convincing statement, and then maybe I’ll believe you.
Government prohibition is the perfect example of why banning drugs is relatively pointless. It makes a very good argument.
Cystic, nobody is debating that those things you listed don’t do horrible things, but you’re original post said that marijauna was a “victimless” crime, and that the only person affected by it is those who smoke it. Hardly so.
Nothing is ever a “victimless” crime. It only depends on how people are affected.
An arguement for keeping Pot illegal base on the fact that it may cause car crashes is weak.
Flipping radio stations is the leading cause of car crashes due to driver inattention to the road. I know, lets ban the radio! :)
Need I remind everyone here that you have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to get high.
AMENDMENT IV
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”What keeps me from smoking pot in the privacy of my own house without the government unlawfully spying and arresting on unreasonable house searches and seizures for drug procession?
Yeah, Crypt, you’re coming up against two conservatives (conservative at least on the drug issue) in Seattle. Conservatives have to be an especially tough breed to oppose abortion/drugs up here. Are you in Jsa IZ?
To tell you the truth, never really liked JSA. Always got stuck to work with a whole bunch of girls that couldn’t hold a candle to my “Conservative Right.” Also Crypt, don’t do drugs! In my opinion, drugs would actually dull my senses and make me “normal!” :P
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Moses, so it is okay to murder people as long as it is in the privacy of your own home?
JSA is pretty big in California, isn’t it. In Seattle it is also dominated by girls, but a lot of them are hot and rich (parents are doctors/lawyers) so I don’t mind to much. :) :)
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Moses, so it is okay to murder people as long as it is in the privacy of your own home?
Read the amendment carefully, “…unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation.” So if there’s probable cause that a murder is taking place, then a house can be searched. But as it is in Los Angeles, I seem many times where the police conducts unreasonable searches looking for drugs without a warrant of probable cause.
JSA is pretty big in California, isn’t it. In Seattle it is also dominated by girls, but a lot of them are hot and rich (parents are doctors/lawyers) so I don’t mind to much.
Yeah, it is since there’s such a “political divide” in California. For the dominated by girls, statement - this is true. I seems like I’m the only guy there (well I like to get some of my YR’s [Young Republicans] and CCC’s to tag along) most of the time. “Hot, rich” girls may be a good thing, but I’m looking for something a bit more intelligent when push comes to shove in debates. The girl’s I know in JSA have a tendency to overreact and let emotions override their judgement. Who knows, maybe I’ll travel up to Seattle to do battle with you someday.
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Listen the bad thing about Pot is this. people who do pot are Leftists/Hippies/criminals. all of these are a threat to society and should be (Evacuated) CC u are right Druggies should not be thrown in jail but (Evacuated) :)
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this is Ewok btw im not at my house so the PC doesnt recognize my screen name. ;)
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Ok, first of all, I’m not really concerned with those pot-heads who light it up in their house. The ones that really concern (and affect me) are those OUTSIDE of the home. The pro-legalization folks here seem to be forgetting that people actually DO pot, and then walk outside. GASP! :o
Yb wasn’t commenting on the amendment portion of your argument, I think he was commenting about the fact that you seem to think you can do whatever you want, as long as it’s inside your home. Please explain this to me.
Why do we have to legalize marijuana to have a better affect on society? There are other more effective alternatives besides giving up on the problem.
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Ok, first of all, I’m not really concerned with those pot-heads who light it up in their house. The ones that really concern (and affect me) are those OUTSIDE of the home. The pro-legalization folks here seem to be forgetting that people actually DO pot, and then walk outside. GASP! :o
Yb wasn’t commenting on the amendment portion of your argument, I think he was commenting about the fact that you seem to think you can do whatever you want, as long as it’s inside your home. Please explain this to me.
Why do we have to legalize marijuana to have a better affect on society? There are other more effective alternatives besides giving up on the problem.
- yes. they do walk out of their house. Big deal. Yes, it’s bad if they do pot and drive - those people need to be punished harshly. Funny - i’m on the board of a condo corp and i had to deal with a buddy of mine doing pot by the pool. What an idiot. I reamed him out and told him next time he was banned from the pool (not that this is germaine to the discussion).
- the amendment - i’m Canadian, so we don’t have the same “amendment” issues (and there is less an emphasis on civil liberties here than in the US). w.r.t. doing “whatever you want” - obviously there is some common sense required here - as TG says - murder is different than smoking up. I can’t kill and eat a man in my own home and then claim some amendment protection. I can, however, do a LOT of disgusting things that are not legislated (as well as things that are legislated but no one cares enough to charge me for).
- My question is why do we have to throw people who do pot in jail and how will that improve society? So far pot-smokers are the least of our problems here in Canada (and we have a much lower homicide rate than in the US so i’m guessing Americans have a few other things to concern themselves with). Legalizing pot will result in fewer “criminals” in jail hopefully being more productive without tying up law enforcement resources etc.
Also decriminalizing marijuana is not “giving up on the problem” but using more appropriate measures to deal with the problem. If we control it, we can make the weed safer, eliminate the criminal element that sells it, maybe make a few bucks in taxes/fines from it, and devote scarce resources to REAL problems. As for the societal ones - some of the tax/fine money could go to the Addicitons foundation - that way the few pot-smokers who actually have a problem might be treated, but there will doubtless be enough extra cash to treat people with more serious addictions.
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Yes, I completely agree with you that we need more appropriate measures. But we don’t need to legalize marijuana to implement the more appropriate measures. Rehabilitation and such can be implemented while still keeping pot illegal.
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Yb wasn’t commenting on the amendment portion of your argument, I think he was commenting about the fact that you seem to think you can do whatever you want, as long as it’s inside your home. Please explain this to me.
I think CC was able to answer this to me. Let’s look at the differences, shall we:
A) Murdering somebody is a violation of his/her civil rights (well duh)
B) [Cold blooded] Murder is universally accepted as wrong - smoking pot is not
C) Murdering somebody places somebody elses life’s in danger (well duh) - smoking pot does not
D) Police cannot search your house without reasonable cause support WITH affirmation. (Works in both cases. What right do I have to search your house for a dead body or pot without a warrant or reasonable cause?)
E) Your house and pot is private property. The person being murdered is not (well duh)And where is my support from all you potheads who posted in the “game of HIGH adventure” thread?
TG, Chris, Xi - i’m looking at you guys.I take the 5th Amendment on that! Drugs are wrong! :)
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