Okay, this is something that we have been debating in our play group, and I wanting to see what everyone else’s opinion is.
The combat turn sequence contains the following steps.
The point of question is: If the attacker has destroyed all enemy units, can remaining attacking subs withdraw to an adjacent seazone before the battle is declared officially over? Looking at the sequence for a round of combat it suggests that attacking subs could withdraw before the check is made to see if the battle is finished.
So far we have played that the attacking subs can not withdraw, but I have been pushing lately for the ability to withdraw. There have been times when being able to withdraw the sub would be nice because it moves the sub out of the range of potential plane attacks. Am I off base here, or do subs have this ability? Thanks,
Once the enemy units are eliminated, the battle is over. All attacking units should remain in that embattled territory or seazone…
Yep, that’s how I play (subs cannot withdraw after all defenders are destroyed)
:lol:
I would have to agree, though it would be nice if you could in fact move the attacking subs away at the end of the battle.
Ve are in agreemint.
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“…and now for something completely different.” - Name the origin of that quote.
Haha, lets hope this never happens again! :smile: (j/k)
I agree this is how my group has always played, but…
From the printed 2nd edition rules. There are 8 numbered steps in the combat resolution sequence. Step 6 is casualty removal. In step 6 there is no mention that if all attacking units are dead, the combat is over. Step 7 allows sub withdrawal.
Step 8 says “repeat steps 2 through 7 until…”, and then lists the conditions for declaring the end of a combat. Based on the first line of step 8 it seems that attacking subs have the chance to withdraw even with all the defenders sunk.
So I think its correct to argue for attacking sub withdrawal after all defenders are sunk. Did I convince anyone?
Heh heh sounds good Zero. I could live with either way…but if I were playing I’d just go with majority rules.
If you read it all it states that f all defending/attacking units are hit then the battle is over. It does not say that if they are destroyed it is over. It seems to me that as soon as the units are hit all chances to retreat are negated since the battle is technically over.
Bossk,
The text “if all units are hit” appears only in step 8, AFTER step 7 which is the chance for sub withdrawl. Since step 8 begins with the sentence “Repeat above steps 2 to 7 until…” It seems to me that you do not test to see if the battle is over until AFTER sub withdrawl.
Zero
[ This Message was edited by: zero on 2002-06-15 17:48 ]
Zero - I now see your point after reviewing the rules and combat steps. I checked the AAMC rules and clarifications and it is not addressed. I think this may be legal taking the rules most literally. It is generally assumed that after the defender is eliminated step 7 was ignored in the case of attacking subs still in the embattled sea zone. I got that feeling the game designer didn’t see this one coming…
Zero, you have a great argument and I would play with your rules style anytime. However, I can’t say the same for the majority of players out there. Maybe you should contact AAMC personally on it.
:lol:
Ok, see it in the AAMC clarifications now. I missed it somehow. Games outside club rules could still challenge this though…
Thanks for the clear up :razz:
So I guess they can’t retreat. That would be really nice if they could, especially if you’re Japan knocking out America’s navy and hten want to retreat to safety.
Guys,
Here’s a really fun house rule that my friends and I play by:
If subs are present on both sides of a naval battle at the end of a round, then the defensive subs may submerge, but the battle continues between the subs. You shouldn’t be able to submerge against another sub, right? So just let the subs duke out a seperate battle below the other naval and air units.
If you looking for “historical correctness,” those opposing subs shouldn’t even have been dukin’ it out in the first place. In WWII you rarely (if ever) saw any sub vs sub battles due to their impossibility. The only way I think this would be feasible is if you waited for the other sub to be forced to surface (for oxygen) first before firing.
As far as sub rules go, I play with a couple, especially when it comes to detection (though these would require destroyers). However two I like to play with is sub-pens and wolf packs. For anyone interested:
Wolf-packs
If 3 or more Subs attack together, they obtain wolf-pack status and one sub (the leader) adds 1 to its attack value.
Sub-Pens
A sub may choose to remain inactive by using it’s non-combat phase to dock in a sub-pen (any coastal territory under the team’s control with an IC). That sub is considered “submerged,” until the beginning of that player’s next turn.
okay, fair enough on the AAMG ruling. It does seems rather silly though. I mean why would the sub lose its ability to withdraw because it was completely victorious? I guess the crew stops the ship and throws a party, until the enemy planes show up ;)
