Brad Meltzer’s show Decoded on the History Channel had an episode devoted to this topic. Its a good episode, if any of you get a chance watch it.
What do you think of General George S. Patton?
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All this talk of trolls…… where are the orces and dark elves? Lets not forget dragons.
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Do I recall correctly Anzac troops were present in the defense of Singapore from the Japanese? I know the Brits were there and recall the Japanese wading across the swamps and waters to surprise the defenders…
I don’t know in all honesty. I believe at the time Singapore fell the vast majority of the NZ fighting force was in North Africa attached to the 8th army. We had been in charge of the defence of Crete earlier and had relocated from their to Egypt.
The Singapore alliance with NZ goes back to the Five Power Defence Arrangement (FPDA) which allied the UK, Australia, NZ, Malaysia and Singapore in the early period of the cold war, to act as a south east asian alliance against possible communist expansion. It’s one of the reasons NZ assisted in the Malayan and Vietnam insurgencies.
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@Captain:
To answer the question on my avatar: I feel no reason to justify my having it. Again, I must ask why I’m questioned for it when others seem free to have any randome thing they desire. However, since you name is Captain Kiwi, I suppose it would fit you more…
Nice gun, btw…
Was just curious about the avatar more than anything as I work with the RNZAF as part of my role at New Zealand Defence HQ, got flown around in a 3 squadron helicopter a couple a months ago and it was awesome fun. However, I probably should have sent a pm and not put it in a post along with other things.
And the gun is a Singaporean 155mm self propelled artillery piece. As part of my job I was invited to a VIP day at the New Zealand army firing range where the Singaporean army were test firing their artillery. Good times. (Singapore is a long time ally of NZ and they don’t have the space to test fire at home, so we hire out our training grounds to them)
Awesome. I’m also fecinated by Singapor and New Zealand being long time “Allies”. I’ll have to put up another thread, since this one is already very off topic, no doubt thanks to me.
On the subject of Patton, I feel he ought to have been in charge of the whole war effort. His performance in North Africa alone should have been enough grounds to approve his plan for Sicily.
Had Patton’s plan been used, hey may have succeded in cutting off the entire German force in Sicily.
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Patton was a little rough, but what do you think war is?
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War is Hell.
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War is Hell.
While I agree with the sentiment offered up By General Sherman, the annoying thing about that phrase is its often used as a counter to war crimes by people.
“But we killed 1000 civilians in that air raid!”
“War is Hell” -
@Captain:
War is Hell.
While I agree with the sentiment offered up By General Sherman, the annoying thing about that phrase is its often used as a counter to war crimes by people.
“But we killed 1000 civilians in that air raid!”
“War is Hell”Agreed - if we are really willing to accept atrocities just for the sake of war, we have failed our species.
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@Captain:
War is Hell.
While I agree with the sentiment offered up By General Sherman, the annoying thing about that phrase is its often used as a counter to war crimes by people.
“But we killed 1000 civilians in that air raid!”
“War is Hell”Agreed - if we are really willing to accept atrocities just for the sake of war, we have failed our species.
Humanity has found war as an excuse for a long list of horrible acts.
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@ABWorsham:
Humanity has found war as an excuse for a long list of horrible acts.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I don’t think any nation, culture or people has 100% clean hands.
It’s one of the reasons I really enjoyed teaching Military Ethics at University. The conundrum of being in an environment where killing people is acceptable yet there are restrictions in fascinating.
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@Captain:
@ABWorsham:
Humanity has found war as an excuse for a long list of horrible acts.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I don’t think any nation, culture or people has 100% clean hands.
It’s one of the reasons I really enjoyed teaching Military Ethics at University. The conundrum of being in an environment where killing people is acceptable yet there are restrictions in fascinating.
No doubt, quite a paradox.
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But we can agree some hands are cleaner than others.
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Finest General the US had in the war…very simple!
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Patton is one of the most interesting characters in WW2.
First of all look at how the Germans feared him. They were terrified of the man. Secondly a good many of Patton’s strategic and tactical viewpoints came to pass about both the 2nd World War and the Cold War. The man also had a sense of justice. He forced German civilians that tried to ignore the existence of the concentration camps to walk through the horrors there. As a tactician and commander I doubt we had anyone better than Patton.
The man had his faults certainly. The two incidents of slapping a soldier (he discharged a firearm in at least one of those, not sure about the second), he always seemed to have trouble managing his supply lines, and he always had trouble keeping his opinions quiet. He blundered severely sending troops to liberate a POW camp that happened to have his son in law as a prisoner. Patton never believed in shell shock, “battle fatigue”.
I really enjoyed Rick Atkinson’s first two books (Army at Dawn and Day of Battle). Patton is a major player in Army At Dawn (focused on North Africa). In the second book Patton is involved briefly but you learn many of his predictions about the fight in Italy prove to be correct. I look forward to third which focuses from D-day to the end of the war. I was disappointed in the amount of time Jeff Shaara devoted to Patton in “No Less Than Victory”. True a wealth of information is already recorded about Patton but writing any WW@ novel without Patton would be like writing about the Shenandoah Valley without mentioning Stonewall Jackson.
I believe that some authors portray Patton with a bias and marginalize Patton (most notably alternative writer Harry Turtledove). Part of this is because Patton offers so much stuff to criticize in his character. Part of it also comes from the fact it is popular to criticize anyone that could be considered conservative today.
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