What's up with the strategies posted on this site?
Been visiting a few times recently. What is with the strategies posted on this site? I mean the actual one’s posted on the site…not message board discussion in general (although I have a lot of reservations there as well). Are those not the worst possible strategies ever to be printed? My goodness, they look like they were posted by some French General…LOL. I mean come on…German carriers, attack Canada, suicide assaults on Karelia, build a fleet and invade the US as Germany. Yuck.
I don’t mean to offend people…but those are rookie strats at best. Don’t you have any one to write something half useable and thought out?
While a lot of the strats weren’t exactly designed for chessmasters, they do a great job of introducing new players to the game and offer some unique strats (like the Invasion of USA). And some of the strats are actually quite well written like handling the worst case scenario for Germany. I dunno, perhaps you will write something?
bossk last edited by
Before the forums got hacked I went on a crusade to point out all the errors in the stratagies for countrys I had any idea how to play (mostly the terrible russian ones). I have since learned not to even bother trying to find the weaknesses in these stratagies and to keep to discussing them in the forum.
KING TIGER last edited by
Good point BOSSK!
KING TIGER last edited by
We could get a lot more in-depth. I think
Sud has a point here. However, I am not
offended by the rookies that come on to this
forum. They get excieted about the game and
therefor could turn out to be long term players. All in all they might help spread the word about the game making it more enjoyable for everyone.
Yanny last edited by
Your wish is my command! I’ll talk with Djensen about a big overhall of strategies.
Email me at firstname.lastname@example.org with your submission and I’ll forward it to the Boss, Mr. Jensen.
I’ll be writing a few myself.
bossk last edited by
Indeed, King Tiger, indeed. New players are always a welcome thing; nothing like expanding peoples gaming horizons.
Ozone27 last edited by
A bit off-topic, but I take exception to the dissing of “French generals”. The French were defeated in WWII partly because of outdated strategy (massing troops in forward positions, over-reliance on fortifications, inadequate air defense, etc.), and partly because of political weakness. The 1st was a flaw most World Powers had prior to WWII that France suffered most from because she was one of the 1st states attacked by Germany; the second was one which all Democratic powers suffer from time and again–1939 was just a particularly bad time for it.
I would like to point out to all present that France nearly took over Europe in the early 1800’s (under Napoleon)and amassed an Empire (albeit briefly) that DWARFED Hitler’s–and “French Generalship” should be respected just as much as any…
Sorry, pet peeve of mine–I am not even of French descent…
I say with the exclusion of Spain (which was pro-Germany during the war), both Empires were roughly the same size.
Oh, as I was reading this I realized that both empire bear some striking similarities. Both countries were brought to power under the brink of collapse by one rule, both Empires were destroyed by the Russians, and Britian for a time was the only other power left standing? Intresting how history repeats itself.
Deathflame last edited by
SUD, you should register.
Also, this forum is for everyone, so if some weak strat is posted, you don’t go dissin’ the one who posted it if he’s a rookie. Everyone is a rookie at one point.
Perhaps a ADVANCED FORUM should be in order?
Maybe a rookie forum aswell?
Also: Anyone from Europe in this Forum, but me?
GulDan last edited by
The German and french Empires were tiny comapred to some other ones, such as the mongol and hun empires. Napolean was a french exception. The french rellied on a fortification, that wouldnt of helped during WWI. Germany invadded through the north of france in both wars
I totally agree about the need to treat rookies with respect and to help them enjoy the game and grow with the A&A family. My concern is that we don’t actually do rookies any favours by providing poor strats. If you think about it, the standard means by which we learn anything new is a cycle. First comes enthusiasm but little skill. Then comes mediocre skill and disillusionment. At this point, either you support the person heavily and encourage them to continue…or they drop out. With enough support, the next step is reasonable competence with varying enthusiasm. Happy when winning, not so happy when losing. At this stage, it is consolidation of learning and lots of practice, with enough encouragement that they don’t drop out. Finally, you reach high competence, enthusiasm, and continued refinement & improvement.
I submit that the value in providing written strategies is primarily aimed to support people at stages 1 & 2. You are trying to equip them with enough knowledge that they can translate their enthusiasm into some competence and success. If you fail them at this point they become disillusioned. I submit that the formal strategies posted on this site, do not aid rookies in learning the game. I submit they detract from learning and are more likely to lead to disillusionment when success is NOT achieved.
Further, I believe that the onus is on the ‘owners’ of this site to ensure that officially posted strategies are indeed sound. I believe it is their responsibility to screen these strategies to that effect, with the express purpose of providing rookies with sound material with which to learn. I draw a major distinction between MB chat and strategy talk vs officially posted strategies. Try all sorts of wacky things on the MB…afterall, the game should be fun. But reserve officially posted strategies for things that are at least sound and well thought out. You can have many different levels of these strategies, from beginner to advanced, but they should be sound…not pure fantasy. Save that for the MB, or list them as wacky and crazy ideas that are not endorsed as a strategy.
What you are missing is that many people come here, see those posted strats and then blow off this site as worthless. I can provide you the MB links from a number of the on-line clubs where these exact statements have been made. The words are to the effect of ‘look at the ridiculous… hahaha’. That is precisely why I am here. I am hanging around, checking out the boards etc. And I see, that there are likely some decent/good/better players here. So, I don’t fully share the opinion of some others who frankly, have trashed this site quite a bit.
I hope you understand where I am coming from. I am not here to create dissent. I am not here to trash you. I will however point out things that I think are wrong and encourage you to improve. I have been very active in the on-line A&A community for a number of years. Part of my mission is to explore all sites I can and look to improve the overall experience that we provide A&A players. Part of that overall experience is sound discussion of strategy. I have my own personal preferences and style. They may differ from yours, and I have no argument with that. But, I can spot BS from far away…and so likely can many of you. So, lets have as many different strats as we can…but let’s make them sound, not BS, and lets make them as useful as possible to the rookie, not set them up for failure.
Again…please read the above post in view of the Officially Posted Strategies on this site.
MB chat is an entirely different matter. Blow your brains out with whatever wacky ideas you have, and have fun doing so.
But zap the crap from ‘Strategy’ on the site. They do you and every rookie a disservice.
Geweezzz… the strats aren’t nearly as bad as you’re making them to be. As general principles, they’re right on target. Plus people actually invested time and patience in order to write them, so they deserve a little credit. I think the surefire way a rookie can tell he is no longer a rookie is when he can look at those strats and find ways to improve on them. I know I have.
NameUsedBefore last edited by
The Hun in Mongol invasions were quite a like. So are the French and German Empires. The only difference is the fact that Germany never entered Moscow (France did).
The Mongols would have the largest “empire” in the history of the world, but it wasn’t really an empire… I mean, they didn’t stay in the areas they conquered, they mostly just moved on.
I don’t know much about the Huns, but didn’t they NOT attempt to invade the isolated Japanese? Also, the Huns went past Constantinople. I think I would too…
The Huns also made it to Rome (I think), I’m not sure what the Mongolians did, but I don’t think they went that way (Eastern Europe and the Balkans is where they stopped right?).
Anyhow, I don’t mind the strategies, although they are a bit out of whack… Meaning I haven’t tried any of them and probably never will.
Mr Ghoul last edited by
Hey, mister Anonymous, Lets here some of your Elite strategies. What sercets could you possibly have, that this site in general, hasn’t covered. Please let us poor newbies into your clique.
hey guys calm down! I’m not the site basher I’m another new anonymous, I like the site, while i agree that some of the strageties seemed basic to me, without those basic srageties (which even without the internet we all seem to have evolved - which is really wierd) we couldn’t set someone up for the woo-woo. think about it, the first time I played 14 or more years ago (as germany) I attacked the caucasses, got my flank smashed and then realized that if i took karelia first, moscow was outflanked and doomed. well after that worked those darn commies realized that those nazis were coming thru karelia and left one man in the caucasses, one tank in moscow and something 20 units in karelia daring me to attack. and if you go all out (planes trains and autos) it works 60% of the time, so that’s cool until you loose and want the odds back in your favor, that’s hard to do on your own, sometimes your ways become set, and you need a rookie to throw something new at you. now instead of stacking 20 units in karelia you bait the germans in with 7 or eight. and keep reserves with tanks and planes in moscow ready to pounce on those unprotected tanks and infantry. a version i think works well by the way…. but that’s the cool thing about a site like this, you get here and you either get up to speed, where your ideas may help, or you say “man you guys are lame, I’m way smarter than you all”. either way you kick out some gibberish, and maybe one thing keys someone else in on a new plan to set up the loosers in his group for the woo-woo.
ps the french got a trip to the wood shed for a couple good reasons
- they s–k.
and … I can’t remember the others… just kidding. they lost out because no one really knew the best way to use new weapons such as the tank and the plane, much less motorized infantry. these three things general Guderian helped pioneer in germany amidst great resistance. luckily he was able to have the old guard leave service in time for new more lateral leaders to nurture his ideas, wereas in france in particular the old guard stuck around. so the germans who had less tanks, and lighter tanks, with only marginally better airpower were able to fight poland, while the french lost the opportunity to sieze the rhur, then come all the way back across europe and set the french and british up for the woo-woo by manstien’s stragety of attacking belgium, (a basic and well known tactic- pertinant to our stragety forum) then rolling thru the ardennes outflanking the bulk of the allied army (not hiding in the magnigot line), and basically using localized superiority to overpower and out maneuver your enemy. I’m not a nazi, they are evil repulsing people. but I love ww2 history, particularly the russian-german war.
- they s–k.
oh and one more thing about site bashing, then i’m outta here, why are you so concerned about image. how much cooler can a grown man (or young adult) be if he wastes eight hours on a weekend playing an imaginary game then chats on this “lame” site. or if he wastes eight hours playing the imaginary game, then runs around telling everyone how much smarter and cooler he is…. it’s just a game! strategy is not only guessing your opponents moves then countering,(something I think the site reflects) it’s also looking for a way to set someone up for the woo-woo. yeah i’ve tried many of those same strategies when I first started, typically attacking the us or canada or even uk with germany early is a mistake, however, when used as a spoiling attack, with expendable troops, often times you can buy yourself one more turn. besides the mark of a true srategist is making the rediculous plausible.
Deathflame last edited by
Hey SUD or Watkins.
I think you should just mail djensen about your thoughts, and stop dissin’ us.Also this thread should’ve been posted in general discussion, not under strategies.
I totally see where you’re coming from, but you’re doing it all wrong.
Though it is true the standards of some strats arent all that, but every semi-experienced player keeps to tell the person posting it it’s flaws, or just simply refrain from answering at all.
You should simply ignore the newbieposts and keep to the more experienced strats posted. You know after 2 lines if its a newbie or a pro posting, so its no hassle.
I’m gonna say again that i feel a newbie-strat and a pro-strat forum is in order.
P.S: Why dun u register?
Have a nice weekend ppl!!!
[ This Message was edited by: Deathflame on 2002-03-01 02:41 ]
Mr Ghoul last edited by
whoever the crying Anonymous guy is, see you later… and take that Sud dink with you.
[ This Message was edited by: Mr Ghoul on 2002-03-01 15:27 ]
LOL…another erudite reply. Must be something in the water. I will try, however, to respect the wishes of the moderators, and keep it civil.
I suggest a few of you go back and read my posts again. Several of you are commenting on MB strategy chat and the like. I am not talking about posts on this MB, and I have made that abundantly clear. So quit taking things personally. Several others would not appear to have actually read the officially posted strats…at least that is my impression. Try reading them…if you are too lazy here is the essence of the 12 Germany strats:
1. Buy all arm and air. Continuously attack the UK Navy. Miracuously take Karelia.
2. Attack Canada with air on G1. (My personal favourite). Attack Alaska and WCan with Jap air on J1. Link the air together into a unbeatable force. Uh, you think we should post insane strats with illegal moves?
3. Attack Caucusus in mass. Build up forces there and attack Russia.
4. Buy 4 Arm + 1 Ftr. Then attack Karelia or Caucusus.
5. Buy 9 Inf + 1 Arm. Infantry after that. Not bad I say!!
6. Attack Karelia with 9 Inf, 7 Arm on G1.
7. Not a strat per se, but good analysis of the German problems in first few turns.
8. Buy 8 Inf + 1 Sub/Tranny every round. Other than the ship every round, not bad.
9. Buy all armour. Sweep the Russians aside. Then buy all Inf for home defense. Then buy all air for British suppression.
10. Buy all armour. Attack the UK Navy on G1 (good!!!). Then sweep through Karelia to Russia on G2 (sigh). Buy all air on G2 for the Atlantic battle.
11. (Another personal favourite). Buy an AC + Ftr on G1. Buy an AC & BB on G2. Evacuate Europe and attack Canada on G3. Build an IC in Canada. Take out the US. Best line: a smart US player might buy all Infantry, but this can’t win…Infantry can’t beat Carriers.
12. Buy mostly infantry (good start). Then buy all armour. Then buy mostly armour. You have miraculously taken Russia by this time…so then buy an AC & 2 Ftrs.
Please, someone try to defend the bulk of these strategies…especially the illegal Air assault on G1 in Canada. Face it, with the exception of a couple decent ones…these are drivel. Now, I don’t mind drivel at all from newbies…they need to learn. So, post away on the MBs…but I say it AGAIN… officially posted strats like these turn people away from this site and do not aid the newbie. My purpose is not to attack the people on this board…a casual perusal has already shown me that there are a number of solid players here. Your moderator Yanny is one. I read a post of his about the R1 Ukraine attack. He understands why this is a good attack and he understands the problems this poses for Germany. Probably a solid player. But, he of all people, should know just how poor most of the officially posted strats are…and he should understand the implications for attracting and retaining people to this site…and for helping the newbie learn.
Blast away all you want at me…but if I can get the officially posted strats improved/updated, I will have achieved my mission. If you cannot see the difference between MB strats/chat and officially posted strats…then please try to look at it from a newcomers point of view. You may all know that they are largely bad…but do something about it.
Finally, while I haven’t registered yet, I post my name on all messages…so please let that go. I am very well known in the on-line community and I sure the heck am not hiding my name. Just lazy and not sure if I should bother.
One last thing, I will put my effort where my mouth is and draft a strat for the moderators. I believe in giving back. Feel free to lambast it all you want but at least it will be both legal and sound. Yanny, would you like something such as Allied 101: How to virtually guarantee an Allied victory in 2nd Edition with no bid. I could also write something on bidding, if you guys are not familiar with it.
Ozone27 last edited by
MARGINALLY BETTER airpower!?!?!?! MARGINALLY BETTER armor!?!?!? What are you smoking!?!? The Germans pitted their crack, combat-experienced pilots in the ME-109 (the best battle-tested fighter in the WORLD at the time)vs. inexperienced Polish flyers in BIPLANES and “parasols” fakrissakes!!! The Polish military relied on DEFENSIVE DEPLOYMENT vs. the Nazis & Soviets in the hopes of an Allied intervention that NEVER CAME (thank you, UK)… and posessed NO MODERN ARMORED UNITS whatsoever.
The German military’s accomplishments in the opening stages of WWII are very impressive. But they are not THAT impressive. Don’t insult the Poles (or the French) for losing when they had neither the tools, nor the experience–only the GUTS–to win…
[ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-01 21:54 ]
I dunno, for the Poles they did have an excellent calvary force that was able to outflank the Germans and invade the fatherland itself. And up until then, France had some pretty good tanks and fairly modern planes. But on the whole, all the equipment was pretty much hold backs from WWI.