The only time I would attack KArelia is if the Russian player is careless and leaves it lightly defended or the Japanese player has already cleaned up six or so Russian AP. Not sure what a bid is.
Taking Karelia 1st turn
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I don’t usually play players that you can attack or strafe KAR on G1 though. Some players like to do the strafe move(this can include ground troops in A&A and still be called a strafe) and pull the ARM out of FIN/NOR so they don’t get chewed up by USSR.
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My friends and I have always played with the house rule that as soon as you purchase units you can place them on the board immediately and can use them the same turn. You guys probably think that’s stupid, but we all like it, gives the Axis a better chance I think. Germany can buy 6 tanks G1 and then go right after Karelia. However, don’t think the Russians are out of it cause the Allies can still provide the support that Russia needs. I’ve recently discovered an American strategy that by building an industrial complex in Sinkiang the Americans can pump tanks into Moscow every turn. This is devastating to the German player and eventually the Americans and Russians can storm into Berlin, with Britain trailing not to far behind :D.
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I realise this is way off topic, but how could an American IC last more past J3 at the longest, against overwhelming airpower. And if it did, the sacrifice of resources to hold it would cancel out any advantage or tank pressure on Germany
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Exactly, but then again how would it ever be beneficial for Germany to strafe Karelia on G1. Obviously, those who consider this to be their best option have not played many games, or many games that lasted longer than turn 5.
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@Desert:
I realise this is way off topic, but how could an American IC last more past J3 at the longest, against overwhelming airpower. And if it did, the sacrifice of resources to hold it would cancel out any advantage or tank pressure on Germany
Simple.
On US1, US buys 1 IC(15 IPCs), 1 FTR(12 IPCs) and 3 INF(9 IPCs) for a total expendenture of 36 IPCs. All Units are placed on SIN. Thereafter all units of US build and placement are placed on SSI.
Of course, the JPN player could SBR you, or worse, plan ahead and buy another BMR and roll HBs(Heavy BMRs) on tech and wipe your sas off the board. In that case, I recommend including a AA gun in your US1 future games.or, if you limit it to 2 units per build on the territory(SSI IPC value of 2 IPCs)…
You cannot succeed as it quickly gives the Axis Powers an IC to capture and use in production. An additional IC in IND by UK just adds to the problem.
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SelfBiasResistor in reference to your comment about holding W,Europe. At this point you have two inf. and two arm. ,and you can use the reenforcements in Germany to help Karelia or W,Europe. :)
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Desert Foxx in reference to your question. I didn’t put all of my battle plan on this article, because I make it a point not to make my articles to long. Yes, your are right in that Africa shouldn’t left untended. What I do to help the Africa Campaign is to send my bomber to Egypt and take the two inf. in on the transport in S, Europe escorted by the BS. and go to Egypt. Nine times out of ten the sub in Egypt doesn’t get a hit. And I usually use two hit BS anyways. There you have it Egypt is yours. If I’m doing really well, I build a industery in Egypt to prepare for an invation of Africa and to hit Asia from another angle. :wink:
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Ukcommander I once played a against a 30 year veteran who also put a industry on Sinkiang ,but he also placed one on India so that the USA and UK were supporting each other. I usually clean that area in three or so turns. He held me the hole game. I think that’s a neat idea of placing the units before combat. I’ll need to try that. :D
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I think that the only way to take Karelia is if the USSR player is stupid and doesn’t attack you turn one. (Except if you play RR which my friends refuse to play.) Otherwise try to take it if it doesn’t weaken your western front too much.
Also, what’s up with all the new desert foxes? How many books have you read about Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel and/or the Afrika Korps? I have read three!
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This is absolutely a terrible idea and it assume the Japs are screwing around doing things they have no business doing on J1 so there is no value in such an ic. Consider that in previous posts I stated Japans early goal should be to take and hold Novo as early and as quick as possible. To this end I suggested that Japan should not spread out its forces on J1, but consolidate them by going heavy for China, and India or Sfe or both if possible while nailing the US fleet in Pearl. The idea is to have a lot of guys in China/Manchuria so that on J2 the Japs can go to Mongolia without the threat of a good Russian counter. Further because Japan is likely to attack China with 6+ infantry assuming a bid of some sort in Manch/FIC the Americans should be deterring from even building their IC in Sink as it would be undefendable anyway. However, if it were Japan could move on Mongolia ignoring India/Sink until J3 while creating a serious threat on Novo/Moscow. If Japan can take and hold Novo then they should also have Yakut and Sink anyway at which point Japan builds ICs in Yakut and Manch rolls out hoards of men or tanks and it becomes irrelevent how strong the defense in India is as Japan can and will eventually roll over it.
The net result is Russia is down 6ipcs to Japan, the Japs still pour out 12+guys a turn, the Russians build only 7units a turn w/o SBRs. At this point if the Brits built an IC in India and the Americans one in Sink they will wish they had troops to dump into Karelia as Germany/Japan will have too much pressure on Karelia/Russia to stop an onslaught.
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AgentSmith I didn’t think much of the strategy myself and had considered bypassing. The problem was while I was bypassing the USA and UK would have a clear shot at my IC on the coast. I’m sure there a way to beat it I just haven’t had a chance play against that person again to try anything new. 8)
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@AgentSmith:
I would say never strafe Karelia. In a RR game the Russians should have 18-19inf 3arm and 1-2 ftrs which should make any strafe uneffective as it would require the Germans to largely ignore the Uk fleet while enduring AA gun shots which depending on how effective/ineffective they are would decide if the strafe is even remotely effective. If you have such limited experience in playing the game that you need to play Yahtzee on G1 then I’d say you are better of getting waxed because you will most certainly learn many lessons in the process.
As for non RR games with a +21 bid…if the bid is mostly in Europe then a counterattack on Karelia may not be such a bad idea depending on how well placed your bid is. However, most of the times it is not, and again by the time you learn when it is you won’t need to so there it is.
allright well while it’s possible to defend karelia….isn’t it also possible that emptying russia… to defend it leaves you open for fighter attacks and also paratroopers being dropped on russia? while you want to defend karelia… you don’t want to leave russia open to attack.
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desertfox “I think the only way to take karelia is if the ussr player is stupid and doesn’t attack you turn 1”
well I think that the article stated that it was only useful against extremely passive players…. why would you try to attack karelia if you can’t move your troops into karelia?
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Paratroopers aren’t in the 2nd Edition rules, and I think only any optional rule for 3rd Edition. That being the case one could very easily leave a token force in Russia such as 3inf ftr which would prevent a paradrop anyways.
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AgentSmith you do need to remember that if Japan is do well on Russia’s Eastern front then just leaving a picket line in the capital would be unwise. All that would need to happen is to have one break through point and it would only take some tanks supported by fighters and the capital would be down. Now it is true that the Japs wouldn’t be able to hold it but the lines against the would need to be thinned to retake the capital and hold it from any other Jap attacks. This would give the Germans a chance to make a breakthrough. 8)
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On the first turn Japan has no tanks with which to do this. After the first turn it is easy to stop this as long as you are pay attention. Anyway paratroopers are a house rule adaptation and therefore subject to such limitations.
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Kar. should be taken the first turn, but only to partially delete it’s forces. Only as a blitzkrieg secondary effort to move your armor and fighters to Moscow. Destroy the UK navy all that you can also on the first turn. The Allies pose no threat in WE if you leave your forces there. Moscow can be taken in Round 2.
See:
http://axisandallies.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3420
It worked for me. With alot of luck. Depends on the option you play with also.
~Tyranny
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