UK IC in ECA…

[MistaBiggs]

First, let me say that I’ve never done this before … not sure that I will ever either; however, I would like to hear everyone’s thoughts on an IC in ECA on UK1.

This would enable UK to build a navy w/o worrying about GER’s airforce picking them off. Unless the fighters are in W. Europe (which this would help out RUS and greatly reduce GER’s offensive threat), only the bomber has the attack range. This would enable the shuck-shuck to get developed sooner. UK could simply produce ships via ECA and troops (inf and arm) via UK. US could send up inf for defense.

Thoughts?

[kyrial]

It’s an interesting thought but what that means is that UK cannot get an effective navy up for at least an additional turn. Plus, figuring that Germany has taken at least 3IPC from UK (Egypt + Wafrica) and will take more the next turn, even barring Japan taking India on T1, I just think it pushes UK back too far. What I mean is that they need to get the navy up and running so that transports can get help to Russia before USA fleet gets over and gives more defensive help.

When I play as Germany, I do all INF the first few turns anyways with the panzers in reserve. I usually only keep 2 fighters on EEU, but still I usually have more troops to prevent an invasion from KAR or anything. Plus Russia is dealing with Japan in the east at the same time.

To make a long story short I think anything that doesn’t put immediate pressure on Germany is bad, but that’s just my gamestyle as an ally. I’ll try this later today and see how it turns out.

[MistaBiggs]

I agree that it will push a UK navy back 1 turn … the only way UK could have a navy and after T1 and not have GER completely destroy it on G2 is to build a transport and an aircraft carrier on UK1 and have US send both of it’s fighters (EUS & WUS) to the carrier and the transport from EUSSZ on US1.

GER may still destroy it depending on what GER purchased and what GER had left after attacking the UK fleet(s) on G1.

With all this said … the IC in ECA really doesn’t set UK back – it more or less assures the survival of it’s newly built fleet.

[kyrial]

Wait, I just want to make sure I am understanding this the right way…

We can assume that G1 destroys the UK fleet in UKSZ, right? Plus maybe the trans in ECA. So if UK buys an IC on UK1, they have 15 IPC left which means no carrier and thus no US fighters in UKSZ to thwart another German air assault on G2. After that, I suppose you could start pumping sea units out of the ECA IC and shipping them into UK after getting a large enough navy (or waiting for US Pacific Fleet to come over) but unless I’m getting this the wrong way you can’t both have an IC in ECA on UK1 and also have a viable fleet in the UKSZ for G2 which means no transports until at least UK3 or so.

If I’m missing something let me know. I’ve been known to miss obvious things on the board before :D

[MistaBiggs]

You misunderstand me (misread). I simply presented you the only alternative that UK has to build a navy on UK1 (w/o building the IC) that will have a chance (perhaps) of surviving a G2 attack. Even if the carrier survives (which it may not) … that’s 2 less fighters for the US, plus the UK transport is dead as well. So, UK will again have to build a navy on UK2 … which may have similiar results (w/o any US naval help).

Basically … it would be advantagous to build the IC in ECA on UK1. It’s the only way to assure that UK’s investments (i.e. UK1 purchases) are safe and don’t get destroyed by the GER airforce (and what’s left of the GER navy – if any) … who more than likely has nothing better to attack on G2 anyways.

[TG Moses VI]

The German is foolhardy if he throws away his Luftwaffe to the UK navy T2 (AC + US ftrs and trn). The fighters are Germany’s greatest asset, without them, he might as well lose the game.

[MistaBiggs]

I agree the GER airforce is to valuable to throw away.

However, GER usually has it’s battleship and 1 or perhaps 2 transports … and I’ve even seen 1 sub left. With it’s remaining fleet and airforce … GER could definitely take out any UK/US navy in the UKSZ. Even if it does lose a fighter – would definitely be worth (in my opinion).

Here’s the jest of it:

Best case scenario for the Allies (UK & US) – 1 ac, 2 ftr, 2 trn

GER (not best case scenario – average) - 5 ftr, 1 bmb, 1 bb, 1 trn

Do the #'s – the odd’s have GER winning @ a 99.5003%. This will be without losing any fighters or perhaps only 1.

Now … an IC is definitely the way to go – when you look at it like this.

[TG Moses VI]

I would be willing to throw away the BB, but I think that the transport is one of those “must” units for Germany. Without it, how can Germany resupply Africa? However, this is an interesting situation, I would be tempted to try it out. If you can delay, both USA and UK for one critical turn, it might give the Axis more time to fortify Africa (say if you purchased a trn on G2 to make up for the one that will be lost). You’re right, risking 1 ftr isn’t much of a sacrifice for Germany, as long as the rest remain in EE to serve as a deterance against a Russian offensive.
Again, another concept to be tested :)

[MistaBiggs]

My thoughts exactly!

Of course … as anything in A&A – the results will be purely circumstantial (i.e. be dependent on what the other countries do). However, it is a good alternative to the possibility of losing all of UK’s well spent money after T1.

[El Jefe]

@MistaBiggs:

Best case scenario for the Allies (UK & US) – 1 ac, 2 ftr, 2 trn

GER (not best case scenario – average) - 5 ftr, 1 bmb, 1 bb, 1 trn

I don’t know who you’ve been playing , but ain;t no way you’d have that to throw at UK if I was Allies!!

UK IC on E Can wastes IPCs… therefore time… something you cannot give Germany to hit USSR. Build at UK & UK sz to pressure The Kriegsmarine.

You would most likely stop using the E Can IC after you had the forces to move to the UK sz anyway.

Teej is right about the value of the trns.

If you are worried about the loss of too much of UKs navy, save the IPCs and build on UK2 or build 2 ftrs & 2 inf or 1 bmr & 1 ftr & 1 inf to protect UK and UK sz. That will sink the imaginary German naval task force in the UK sz!

[C_F]

I agree with El Jefe, there should be now way the Germans have a battleship and a transport within 2 spaces of the UK SZ on T2. I could see them being in the SE seazone, but if they move to Wed Med on T1 then the UK’s airforce should take them out along with the East Med sub or possibly the East Can transport, if either of them are still alive.

[MistaBiggs]

First of all,

Germany (90% of the time) does have the bb and a trn and/or a sub in the WMEDSZ after G1. Also, the UK in EMEDSZ is dead or if it survived the 1st round – submerged or withdrawn to the REDSZ. More than likely, all RUS and UK ships will be eliminated on G1 (including the trn in ECASZ).

In order for UK to take out the GER bb and the GER sub and/or trn with it’s airforce on UK1, all planes would have to land in Gibraltar. Thus, no UK fighters in KAR and at least one of the fighters will die (if not both). No way a smart UK player would sacrifice it’s airforce on UK1.

So, by waiting until UK2 to buy ships … this puts you in the same perdicament as the UK1 IC in ECA = no usuable UK navy until UK3.

To me … it’s better to have UK buying nothing but trn – let the US build the ac on US1 or US2. The US has more income anyways.

Anyhow … this IC in ECA was just a tool to spark some conversations – and it did exactly what I hoped it would.