The rule you are stating is only for offloading during non-combat phase (it means if your transport does anything during combat phase, it can’t do anything during non-combat phase)
During non-combat phase, Transports can go to any friendly or neutral sea zone, whatever the alliegence of the coastal territory(ies). Also in non-combat phase, transports can only offload in friendly territories.
Fortress Europe is definitely beatable, but allies needs to be willing to take some calculated risks as to be aggressive since the grinding game of just trading territories and slowly building up hoping for axis openings just leaves allies a huge underdog.
And I would add that KGF as more chances to beat Fortress Europe then KJF as chances to win in general :)
Boats are more expensive then planes and being able to have transports for Germany doesn’t worth the difference of IPC used to build a fleet instead of using planes.
As for the fortress europe strat maybe you should try it instead of just talking about something that you actually never tried.
As an exemple of this month of my games in championship division of the aa42 league (all games with no bid obv) :
with axis : 3 wins (2 Fortress Europe, 1 Moscow Blitz)
with allies : 2 wins (1 against Fortress Europe with quite good rolls for me, 1 against AC bulid in Med)
1 loss (against Fortress Europe)
Allies needs 8 transports disembarking, that is 56 IPC, plus quite a bunch of sea units on both side, if they lose a juse sea fight it will be a pain to build back mostly if they trade against Japan.
As for your question on Japan in Asia, you don’t need air to get to Moscow, past turn 1, If there is no IC in Asia.
As for Germany aggressivity, it is just the “normal” way to make an attack, build infantry first then aggressive units.
There are 3 fronts in KGF games: Asia/Russia, Germany/Russia and Africa. Fortress Europe stops allies from spreading their units as they need between Africa and G/R fronts (from around turn 5 when Japan threat to invade Africa becomes real). Yes it will likely take around 8 turns (sometimes even more!) for Japan to take Africa but when they do axis superior IPC production will become decisive.
It might seems like a very long plan, but between top level players you need good early dice to justify aggressivity or you will just get kill by a fine tuned counter-attack. To be succesful you need to be able to plan long term plans.
The point of the Japan planes is not to take down allies fleets. It is to stop them from splitting the fleet however they want (Since allies can’t move UK and US fleets at the same time, they have either Japan or Germany playing in between). It then forces allies to either buy way too much fleet to be able to split their transports to attack different points (like having some diesembarking in Algeria and some in Norway early for exemple) or to just attack one territory and not being able to switch without buying more fleet. So the axis plan becomes stoping allies to disembark in Paris and:
I hope I explained a bit better then previously why those Japan planes are so strong against KGF.
Russia won’t keep 30 IPC because Japan will take Asia and hopefully Caucasus eventually. And it is not play economic victory it is just that when axis makes more money then allies it is pretty much all the time game over (excdept is Germany is on the verge of falling).
Obviously this strat is not winning 100 % of the time, no strat does. It is on the other hand the strat that gives axis the best odds if played correctly. Aas an exemple, it is much harder to play then just blitzing Russia with tanks :)
Building AC + 2 destroyers in SZ8 landing 2 US fighters and adding the US cruiser is usually a nice option if Germany attacked SZ2 and killed the battleship (if not, just building what you would need to survive an air+sub attack and build transports if you have money left. Depending on the German odds of attack on SZ8 you bring or not the US transports, and you may sent the UK transports on Washington’s coast not to lose extra units without reason against likely German attack. Even if Germany as better odds to win on SZ8 (depending on how many planes survived/were built), this strat is nice to lure Germany forces away from Russia and you should always be willing early to trade more UK IPC for a bit less Germany IPC (their “real” value is not the same since Russia/Germany front is ALWAYS the most important front). Also, if Germany had a very good turn 1 and kept all planes, you should be willing to take some risks to try to take the advantage out of axis’ hands.
Also it depends on how Germany places is units, if all planes are in Paris, you can build in SZ2 for exemple.
There is no “best” land unit. There are land units with different uses.
-When you want to defend actively, you want mostly infantry while having some attack units (which one depends on the kind of front that you are defending) to stop your opponent from going forward with a big stack.
-When you are all-out defense you want only infantry.
-When you are attacking you want a mix of attacking units and infantry, yes an attack as a bigger win% with the right mix of inf/tanks then with just tanks (there was a very nice post earlier explaining this for people who’d doubt).
-When you are all-out attacking well yes you’d want only tanks the only right scenario for that is blitzing Russia early with Germany and it necessites some prerequisites to be a fine option (in my own opinion, I know a good player who doesn’t agree with me there, depends on the play style I guess)
So in a nutshell, the most needed unit is definitely the infantry, but I wouldn’t say it is the “best” unit because it seems too much of a specific case question (although if you’d tell me that you’ll give me 20 bucks just to shut up and answer the question, I’d go with infantry).
I hear fortress Europe all the time and have seen bits and pieces of this strategy posted. Doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. I could be wrong but is it just basically Germany turtling with a bunch of planes and Japense air help? How do they decimate the allied naval builds if they too weren’t buying navy? With planes? How many planes would they lose to do this? How long would this take to set up? You know what I’d do as allies if Germany lost planes and killed the UK and US boats? Buy more! Germany’s pieces are irreplaceable. US and to a lesser extent, the UK’s aren’t. How does Germany fight with no planes? How passive is Russia in these scenarios? How aggresive is Germany or Japan?
There’s no way to keep the allies out of the Atlantic or landing in Africa. Maximum delay is 3 rounds. Fortress sounds like a defensive strat and playing an axis focused on defense is the wrong way to play them.
Sorry but I think the experience of the players in the high level leagues means something :)
You are not getting completely the idea of fortress Europe, not fortress Europe and Africa. The idea is very simple, if you can keep Germany around 38 IPC (so 12-13 infantry per turn) for the time Japan need to go forward in Asia, later taking Africa or Moscow (usually around turn 7 if allies play in the Atlantic), you will win because of the economic advantage. The planes are mostly for slowing down allies in the Atlantic (obviously you can’t stop them forever from landing) and when they are ready to land (usually turn 3 for their first landing and turn 4 for their first huge landing) they have nowhere good to land because Germany as at that point build a massive amount of infantry.
It requires experience to play it correctly and it is easy to make a mistake at some point but it is very hard to beat for allies and is definitely the best plan for an experienced player that calculates the odds of the fights and therefore as always correct amount of infantry on every territory. Beginners will have difficulties to play this plan correctly though because they will sometimes leave more infantries then necessary to block landings and see Russia go forward or they will sometimes not leave enough infantries in defense and lose a big stack to a landing (plus the hole it creates) and will lose because of it.
If Germany decides to go all out for Russia with land and air units, then nothing is stopping the allies from going all out for Germany. They can shut down Germany round by round. Round 1- control Atlantic, destroy Baltic Navy, Round 2 land in Africa/Norway, Destory German Med navy, by round 3 all those land units you were planning on sending against Russia had to come back to defend France. You’re going to need at least ten units there - 30 ipcs and you aren’t making Africa money and Japan is not that fast.
Because you are not building an AC in the med doesn’t mean you let allies land anywhere on turn 2. You are also having planes.
The main plan with Germany is not going “all out against Russia”, it is Fortress Europe. If Germany lets allies land in Africa/Norway without killing the allied fleet, well Germany doesn’t know what he is doing (or your Russia dices were really terrible and he decided that he could just go all in and blitz Russia).
Fortress Europe is the proven best plan for axis and is pretty much the only thing you see at high level in leagues. AC build is fun to try sometimes but is not nearly as competitive.
And before someone writes that Fortress Europe is not incompatible with building AC turn 1: Yes, it is :)
vessel - Word History
Date of Origin 13th c.
Latin vascellum meant ‘small dish or utensil’. It was a diminutive form of vas ‘dish, vessel’ (source of English vase). It passed into English via Old French vaissel and Anglo-Norman vessel, on the way acquiring the additional meaning ‘ship’.
And a small world history class (US schools should really put more emphasis on world history before 20th century):
In 1066, William the Conqueror, the Duke of Normandy (part of modern France), invaded and conquered England. The new conquerors (called the Normans) brought with them a kind of French, which became the language of the Royal Court, and the ruling and business classes. For a period there was a kind of linguistic class division, where the lower classes spoke English and the upper classes spoke French. In the 14th century English became dominant in Britain again, but with many French words added. This language is called Middle English. It was the language of the great poet Chaucer (c1340-1400), but it would still be difficult for native English speakers to understand today.
The amont of english words whose ethymology comes directly from french being about 30 %, and from old french + french 60 %.
So even though english is a germanic language from origin, it contains more french words then anything else :)
When I was in the Navy and served aboard the USS Midway, there was no question about it. I was Carrier Vessel.
If the above statement is true, I’m sure it’s original meaning disappeared a long time ago. My guess is because the Navy didn’t want to use a French word. We know how the French fight.
For reference vessel was originally a french word. It comes from the latin vāscellum.
Just like 30 % of the english vocabulary which comes directly from french.
A gift from a couple centuries ago when British aristocracy was french speaking :)
Building aircraft carrier + destroyer in the med is way too much. This is 22 IPC not spent in much needed land units and the wins you will make in Africa won’t compensate the losts in Europe + 7 land units missing.
If you really want to play this strategy, never buy more then 1 aircraft carrier on the sea, any extra units is useless safety since it is already doubtfull that allies will be able to take out carrier + 2 fighters + battleship in the early turns without giving away too much in terms of needing to get carriers putting UK/US units in Europe as fast as possible.
I also agree that the second transport is not needed.
This strategy is mostly a decoy to lure allies out of their only real plan which is taking Germany down. On the other hand, the early 14 IPC (which is almost 5 Infantries) is HUGE if allies follow their plan and attack Germany.
@Bunnies:
Some things are just not good. Like a Russian battleship on R1, or a Japanese carrier and a destroyer on J1. But a G1 Mediterranean AC is not like that.
I’m not going to go as far as saying “German Med AC is superior”. But I will certainly say it’s not one of those fluky silly strategies like Russian 1 battleship or Japan 1 carrier/2 destroyers.
Exactly what I said at the beginning of my post: This strategy is suboptimal in comparison to usual Germany strategy. It can still win.
On the other hand from my allies play experience I’d say my win% against this strategy is around 90% against players with fair to high experience instead of around 60-70 %, although I have to admit those numbers might be biaised by the fact that I don’t really see high experience players using that strategy :)
This strategy is suboptimal in comparison to usual Germany strategy. It can still win. The reason being that Russia usually has a very easy time surviving with low Germany pressure. It has principally 2 “tricks”:
The blitz attack on London on G2 (if you win with that trick you likely would have won the match with any strategy anyways)
Japan coming through Suez, merging with Germany fleet and seriously disrupting allies fleets in the Atlantic, giving slightly better “long game” winning chances to axis even against very good players (although quite destroying the “short game” wins, and by a much bigger margin !). This one is tougher to counter and need an overall strategy. I don’t want to discourage people to build German navy against me though so I’ll stay quiet on it :)
As for the extra IPC in Africa, well nobody can deny that, but whenever you gain something somewhere you lose something elsewhere, just a question of balance. From my experience, Russia early peace of mind, staying high on IPC, building more units before Japan arrive, is more then enough compensation for the UK loss.
In a nutshell for this startegy and simple (I think) explanation of why it is suboptimal: Axis is trying to kill Russia. Germany can win IPC early in the game wether from UK (in Africa) or Russia (in Europe). It seems obvious to me that is is better to cut Russia income since your plan is to take Moscow to win, therefore to spend IPC against Russia (ground/air) and not against UK (ships to keep control of Med/Africa).
Just my two cents.
Building navy with Germany is a losing strategy against any good player. Germany can only afford boots and planes.
I tried to connect yesterday morning but I received a message that I was banned, then it was working normally in the evening. I tried to connect his morning again and I received the same message that I was banned. What is happening ?
From one expert to another, what do you do with your British navy in India? I’m on a fact finding mission.
Well, I’m no expert, but I’ll throw in my opinion. If Germany did not capture Egypt, one viable and pretty smart option is to send them through the Suez Canal. In the games I have played, Germany never goes for Egypt on G1… to do this they would have to devote fighters that could be used more effectively in Russia.
I have also seen them move off the coast of Africa near Madagascar, or even just stay in India. This is useful because later in the game the Indian Navy can be used as quite a nuisance to the Japs. Imagine a British carrier with a cruiser,transport, and AUS sub emerging from the South Pacific right about the time an American fleet heads into Jap waters… that’s a lot for the Japs to handle.
Someone earlier talked about killing Jap transport on UK1… I had never thought about that, but it’s a good idea.
Definitely. That is why I only said Borneo was an option. Others are also good and likely better in many cases.
The only way Borneo can be an attack option is if Germany didn’t attack Egypt (and you have the right to laugh when it happens), if he lost there, or if he lost the Battleship vs Destroyer fight. In a nut shell, if you still own Egy at UK1, it is an option, if not, forget it.
Anyone voting DD as not understood something in naval fights.
Anyone voting bombers as not understood the value of strategic bombing on his killing target (Russia or Germany usually).
For ground units, Art is the call (if no AA guns), but the winner should be in the ships area.
I will have to say Crusers, very close to Battleships, and maybe of subs depending which side you play the most often.