If you want a whining thread then make one and call it anything you like….
Thank you for the suggestion. I believe a thread devoted just to this topic might show how much/little universal acceptance there really is for this version of the rule-set.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation to Imperious Leader, axis_roll, cousin_joe, Cmdr Jennifer, or anyone involved with the creation of AARe or AA50 (with or without the ‘e’). Likewise, I have never spoken to any of the afore-mentioned individuals, either personally or electronically. If my views and opinions appear to be in line with those of others on this site, maybe it’s more than a coincidence. Maybe there is a real problem with the way things have transpired. I’m not saying anything is going to change, but I still have the right to express my displeasure.
Everybody has a right to opinions…
First off, please excuse my lengthy post, but I just had to get a few things, that have been bugging me, out in the open. Also I’ve included a fair amount of quotations from other threads to help reinforce some of the statements I’ve made as well as clarify what has prompted some of my comments. Some conclusions I’ve had to make on my own due to lack of concrete information provided by the individual(s) making the statement(s).
My personal view of the “self-proclaimed” official version of “enhanced” rules for AA50. I only say self-proclaimed, because as far as I know there is no governing body for official house rule versions. In which case, I look to the people responsible for creating the previously accepted rule-set.
Jennifer, please stop posting your assemblage of rules as The Enhanced Rules for AA50.. Your rules were not created via a consortium of A&A players to fix agreed upon game playout issues nor have they been play tested. You have even incorporated rules from other game editions for no reason!
Had axis_roll not challenge Cmdr Jennifer on her rules, I would not have known that those individuals responsible for the AARe rule-set were not involved with the “enhancements” to AA50. Does that matter? Maybe not. But I’ve come to expect a certain level of thoroughness from the rule-set with the little “e” after it.
These rules have been accepted just about everywhere at this point. …but so far, these are the only OFFICIAL Axis and Allies Anniversary Edition Enhanced Rules. No other AA50e rules exist.
I have to disagree with the “accepted just about everywhere”, because “everywhere” is a lot of places. Although, I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. Hopefully this thread will prove that to be true once more so we can get past this and continue on with the gameplay discussions. But until that time comes, I stand by my first statement: I disagree. There are enough comments from different individuals on this site to disprove that claim. Granted there may be people that agree with it, who also haven’t spoken up.
Why use the “Enhanced” term. There are a variety of terms that mean relatively the same thing. Modified, adapted, personalized, and custom are some possibilities. Why pick enhanced, specifically?
Why utilize an established name?
There are only a few reasons I can think of:
- The previous “owner” doesn’t have time to continue creating/modifying rule-sets and has asked that someone new carry the torch.
…I asked if you had Cousin_Joes stamp of approval (not a legal right to call these rules AA50e). You said you had many emails with his approval. I asked for one example and supplied my email, but alas, no email from Jennifer that states Cousin_Joe is on board with the set of rules you have labelled AA50e.
They were not hijacked. Cousin_Joe and everyone else was made fully aware of what was being done when the official word came that they had no interest in creating the Anniversary Enhanced Rules themselves. They were asked, begged and pleaded with to assist and they chose not too. They relinquished control provided we did not make any drastic changes.
Inner need to be the center of attention (my life needs meaning).
The attached PDF are THE OFFICIAL AA50:ENHANCED RULES, end of story. If you would like to create a different set of rules you may feel free, but my set is the first released and published and game tested and approved by the player base. Many people had a hand in helping to create them which, indirectly, includes the original designers of AARe since much of the rules are copy/pasted straight FROM AARe…
All I asked for was proof that [cousin_joe] agreed with you. You replied with insults, personal attacks and legal action. Enhanced was created via a collaborative effort, a unified team that shared ideas, game play tests results and worked together under CJ’s guidance. More than anything, your Me-first attitude insults that portion of the Enhanced legacy.
Users with low number of posts
Whiny= more than one complaint about the same thing and nothing else substantive to offer. I am more specifically talking about the other people who have less than 10 posts total and 9 of them are the same post about complaining about the same thing. They got enough of these posts in and everybody has fully understood them so their is no point in reposting the same stuff again and again.
You have got to be kidding me. What right does a moderator have, to remove a post saying that because the person hasn’t posted 1 thousand times their post has less meaning than someone else’s. As a matter of fact, I believe it holds more. I read the posts/threads, but I’ve never felt the need to post, myself. Look at the number of reads per thread. There are a lot of people out there that are doing exactly the same thing. People who are already registered and posting 10 times a day are pretty much giving their “two cents” on everything. Not that it’s a bad thing, it’s just an observation. However, as with this post (my very first), the travesty that has been going on here has motivated me enough to create an account and express my feelings. That by it self should speak volumes about how I view the situation. And then to say that my opinion has no value because I have a low number of posts is a bit extreme. But that is what you are saying when you delete a post that doesn’t break any of the forum rules. (By the way, this truly is my very first post, here. I have never posted under another moniker on this site or any other site related to A&A).
If more than just a couple of people are having an issue with something, I don’t view it as “whiny”. And then how can a moderator say that I only have the right to say something once and if I mention it again my post will be deleted?
Ok everybody is now limited to ONE whining post. All who have posted so far have filled their quota.
You cannot tell me that if I gave 10 glowing reviews to something posted on this site that you would remove 9 of them because I had my say and everyone knows how I feel.
Maybe this needs to be revised?
Everybody has a right to opinions…
…as long as they are the right opinions.
Imperious Leader, please give me the proper way to express my disapproval for something that you would consider not whiny. Do I have to put a smiley emoticon after it? These are discussion threads. People will always have differing opinions. That is one of its primary functions: hear what EVERYONE has to say, whether you like what they have to say it or not, then take it, leave it, or rebut it.
Cmdr Jennifer, please give us the details of your testing. If you have tested this as intensively as you say, this information should be readily available to you.
…Everything was logical and procedural and stems from the original rules given to us, discussions with the creators, testing by literally dozens and dozens of players…
(Some of this has been touched on, but it’s spread out over several threads. I was hoping we could consolidate it into one and let the facts speak for themselves)
- Who are they?
- What are their playing levels?
- How many games of AARe and AA50 have they played? (Because you are incorporating both sets of rules)
- Who have they beaten?
- What side(s) do they play (Axis, Allies, both)?
- What testing procedures were used?
- What strategies have been tested to validate the need for rule changes? And tested by which testers? Against which other strategies? By which side?
- How many times was each strategy tested?
Part of my daily job is testing. So when you say logical and procedural, to me that also means documented. If you haven’t kept records, how can you make rational decisions? How do you know what’s been tested and what hasn’t? How can you go back to games played weeks/months ago and re-affirm your conclusions if you don’t know which games prove which points? How can you prove that chance didn’t greatly affect the outcome of the testing? Forgive me if I’m skeptical when you state “I believe…” and you provide no evidence upon which you based your conclusions.
I believe it is unbalanced in so much as Germany has no realistic ability…
I believe the allies might have an unfair edge…
WHO MAKES THE RULES:
- Who submits the ideas for changes to the rules?
- How is the decision made as to which rules get enacted/changed?
- What ratio of votes are needed to make a change or prevent one?
- What level “expertise” does the voting people possess that gives them the right to place a vote? There are several people here on the site that may have this expertise. Most of them are listed as people I don’t know up in my disclaimer. I’m assuming that not every person testing has a vote on which rules get enacted/changed/removed.
Unfortunately, I was out voted.
I was also voted down on my opinion…
Lastly, the copyright has been attained on these files. It was the only way I could think of to get axis_roll to shut up and stop whining that life moved on and adapted AARe to work in AA50e.
You can copyright everything you write, however that doesn’t stop anyone from criticizing what you do as a person.
You see, Axis has a bone to pick with me.
1) He feels slighted because his only critique of the game was that there were too many “new” rules. There are no “new” rules in Anniversary Enhanced, there is only a blending of AARe rules to work within the rules of Anniversary.
- Now, if Imperial Leader would be so kind, it would be great if axis_roll’s comments were deleted from the thread. It is painfully obvious that he is attempting to stir up discontent in an effort to kill the hard work of dozens upon dozens of individuals for his own personal gain by slinging mud. Right now there are 3 major clubs that are looking to this board for their copies of AA50:Enhanced and the users who do not know better, might think axis_roll has some influence or say over the matters instead of him just being some discontented user with a bone to pick with me personally.
Again I have to disagree with you. There are plenty of posts that show not everyone is on-board with your rule-set. Also, I don’t think that axis-roll has a personal issue with you. Although, not knowing him I can only speculate.
Here are a few quotes that I’ve read that show there is not a universal acceptance to your rules.
Bottom line, we haven’t played enough OOB games to really know what the ramifications will be. These rules introduce far too many variables.
To be honest, I’m not really sure we should even be thinking about an AA50e right now. AA50 just came out, and really wasn’t AARe designed to add spice to a version that had been out for years?
I think these discussions are fine, but I agree with Emperor Mollari and think it still a little early yet for a full blown AA50e. …Let’s get some experience first before we try to ‘fix’ things.
I agree, this is a whole new game and we can’t simply port over everything from AARe to AA50e
It’s way too premature for a project like this, we don’t know enough about game balance with the OOB rules yet to start making fundamental changes to the rules and expecting quality game play.
Jennifer, stop using Enhanced as if it were yours! It is in poor taste to hijack Enhanced (AARe) from Cousin Joe.
Yeah, I don’t want to stir anything up but it doesn’t seem right to adapt the “Enhanced” moniker without the endorsement of the original AARe guys.
Besides, AA50 hasn’t had time to settle yet. I think over a year passed from the release of AAR to the development of AARe, and that’s good because apart from a little clunkiness with subs, AARe was an excellent ruleset. You could tell that the collaborators behind it had played a LOT of games. I don’t think anyone can really say that so far in the three or so months AA50 has been out.
The only possible reason to call the Jenny ruleset “Enhanced” is to confuse newbies or people like me who play a lot offline but don’t really keep track of the online scene. And then to keep at it when the original three ask nicely to desist is boorish and arrogant.
I for one will never play AA50:Jenny, but if the real Enhanced rules come out once you guys get a sense of the game’s balance please keep us informed.
Cmdr Jennifer, please prove me wrong. Prove to me that what you’ve said in your posts is accurate and truthful; not just “smoke and mirrors”. This dissension among the players is distracting from the game. I look forward to a time when game strategy and rules can once again be discussed without the (using your own term) “bunk”.
Whine-free indicator ==>