AARHE: Phase 3: Air Combat

[tekkyy]

In Axis and Allies all combats are considered to happen at the same time. Attacker chooses which to resolve first.

Existing AARHE rule:

"Each air unit except BMR (bomber) in a territory function as an AA/ID(infrastructure defence) against overflown enemy air units in Combat Move, unless they are performing Defensive Air Support or Air Interdiction this turn."

Drafting AARHE rule:

"ID (infrastructure defence) is not invulernable..."

These 2 rules introduced complexity of AA fire against overflown enemy air units.
We need to define more clearly when they happen.

Logically all AA fire against "forward flights" should be resolved before any real combat.
But what about AA fire against "return flights"?
When should "return flights" actually occur?

Attacker could reduce the defender's AA fire on attacker's "return flights" by...
*destroying defender's air units in the path (hence reduce no. of air units functioning as AAs against overflown enemy air units)
*capturing defender's territories in the path (hence the AAs)

If we resolve AA fire against "return flights" after ALL combats are resolved. It might be unfair/unrealistic.

Say USSR performs
*SBR attack from Archangel on Germany
*Air attack from Caucasus on Eastern Europe
*Land attack from Karelia on Eastern Europe



The SBR is a one-cycle combat. The air attack is also a one-cycle combat. The land attack can be multi-cycled.

Its fair that any of defender's air units destroyed in the air attack shouldn't be able to shoot at the SBR's "return flight".

But if USSR wins the land attack after 3 cycles, I think its unfair the SBR's "return flight" gets no AA fire from Eastern Europe.

[Imperious Leader]

"Each air unit except BMR (bomber) in a territory function as an AA/ID(infrastructure defence) against overflown enemy air units in Combat Move, unless they are performing Defensive Air Support or Air Interdiction this turn."

Drafting AARHE rule:

"ID (infrastructure defence) is not invulnerable..."

These 2 rules introduced complexity of AA fire against overflown enemy air units.
We need to define more clearly when they happen.

Logically all AA fire against "forward flights" should be resolved before any real combat.
But what about AA fire against "return flights"?
When should "return flights" actually occur?


I don't think planes get or should get shot at on return flights.

The ID defence occurs only at the start of the first round of air combat. This is the only time when AA rolls are performed

its basically the same as OOB rules in terms of how and why except the mechanics are different (using 2 dice having to roll a one twice to hit)

we should not allow any problems with smooth play without these 'incidents' along the way.

Its fair that any of defender's air units destroyed in the air attack shouldn't be able to shoot at the SBR's "return flight".

But if USSR wins the land attack after 3 cycles, I think its unfair the SBR's "return flight" gets no AA fire from Eastern Europe.

why is this unfair? the planes had the chance to attack incoming planes. Its correct that only on SBR is limited to one round, but in plane on plane combat during land combat THIS combat is every round as long as land units are fighting. Only on those special missions are the planes limited to one round.

If you feel strongly we can require AA rolls on any transversed enemy territory on the incoming flight only. but no intercepting planes or it would complicate the game too much.

[tekkyy]

I don't think planes get or should get shot at on return flights.

They don't?
I am talking about overflying enemy territory.
I think they do in OOB and LHTR.
Why shouldn't they get shot on return flights anyway?

The ID defence occurs only at the start of the first round of air combat. This is the only time when AA rolls are performed

um...we reduced AA fire from 16% to about 2.8% but made it shoot every turn!

why is this unfair? the planes had the chance to attack incoming planes. Its correct that only on SBR is limited to one round, but in plane on plane combat during land combat THIS combat is every round as long as land units are fighting. Only on those special missions are the planes limited to one round.

Oh yeah. That was a bad example. The 3 attacks should have been on separate territories.

I wanted to show "logically" the SBR fleet return flight occurs before the land combat in Eastern Europe is over. Hence the AA guns there should be able to shoot at the SBR fleet although Eastern Europe falls to USSR this turn.

On the other hand any air units destroyed in the air-only attack (one cycle only) would be killed before the return flight occurs.

A different case here with the 3 attacks in 3 separate territories. The SBR, and 2 territories on its path.

[tekkyy]

"P-51 Mustang" National Advantage:
"Your fighter's move increases from 4 to 6 on SBR only."

AARHE hasn't modified SBR enough from OOB to cater for escorts. BMR (bomber) on SBR do not engage enemy.

Currently only two changes
*maximum economic damage per round at a territory equal to territory income
*FTR (fighter) which are not performing Air Interdiction or Reinforcement then function as ID (infrastructure defence) against SBR

Propose
*SBR allowed on all territories
*Incorporate SBR into normal Combat

SBR allowed on all territories
OOB bleeds a player via one IC, LHTR bleeds a player per turn, AARHE capped it to territory income per round.
Realistically, damage per IC should depend on IPCs going through the IC. But that only makes sense if IPC flow happens in passive turn and requires complex planning. So SBR shall hit production not transportation of IPC.

Incorporate SBR into normal Combat
BMR on SBR can be hit by defending air units.
Defending FTR no longer function as ID. Defending ID hits are targetted. Defending FTR hits are normal, can be allocated by attacker to attacking FTR instead of attacking BMR. Escort.

But, SBR becomes harder.
FTR hits are stronger than ID hits.

[Imperious Leader]

Im not sure its alot to think of. Perhaps just not having the NA may just avoid additional complications.

[tekkyy]

yeah escorts art costly too when modelled this way

but what about "SBR on all territory" ?
that one is a simple decision

[Imperious Leader]

you should be able to SBR any territory up to the value of the territory... factories should however make it easier to kill more IPC... possible up to double the ipc?

[tekkyy]

yes SBR on all territories
no not double for territories with IC

because could end up with negative income overall - so in addition to rule at territory level, need rule at overall level
(eg. you hold Germany with IC, and Western Europe with no IC...enemy performs SBR on both for max damage)

and what I was saying: IPC production is during enemy turn, IPC transportation is during your turn
doesn't make sense to hit me then territory income

solution
territory with no IC, max. SBR damage is half of income rounded down
rockets still against IC only

[Imperious Leader]

ok agreed. make it so.