September 19, 2017, 11:46:01 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Want a t-shirt? Check out our awesome Axis & Allies .org T-Shirt Store! Search me
  Articles  
   Home   Help Login Register AACalc  
Loading
Pages: 1
  Print  
Author Topic: What should be the first actions taken by Germany at the beginning of the game?  (Read 3377 times)
ww2general
A&A.org Infantry
*
Posts: 11



View Profile
« on: March 28, 2016, 05:38:45 am »
0

Hi. I have played Axis & Allies revised edition only twice. Hard to find players in my region.

I would like to know what should be the first steps Germany should take at the beginning of the game? Should Germany invade USSR, should they build more troops and wait at least one turn ... This kind of stuff.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 05:40:40 am by ww2general » Logged
Wolfshanze
A&A.org Submarine
*
*
****
Posts: 916



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 06:31:43 am »
0

Be as aggressive as possible. Sitting back and playing the waiting game is not a good idea for Germany (or Japan) when the Allies have an income advantage over you... the strong points of the Axis is that they start with more forces in locations ready for the offensive.

To win as Germany, you need to knock out either the UK or USSR as quickly as possible before the USA and UK forces can build up and become a serious threat. This means you kinda need to put a seed in your head as to if you're pursuing a Kill England First strategy or a Kill Russia First strategy, and plan accordingly... realistically, with either strategy, you should probably neutralize the British fleet on your first turn, or at least as much of it as you can... this is an obvious need if you're going after England first, and it is also needed if you're going after Russia first, because denying England a fleet early, gives you some breathing time to work on Russia. Also, your spending should be focused on whichever strategy you're going after... you'll need to beef the German fleet if you're going after England, and you need tons of tanks and ground forces if going after Russia first. What you should do in Russia on the first turn will vary depending on what the Russian player does before Germany moves, so it's hard to say with certainy exactly what you should do, but press an attack somewhere if you've got a path to victory, being meek in Russia is never a good thing unless you're just stalling on the Eastern front while you focus on England.

There's a lot of strategy videos on Youtube for Axis and Allies, you might want to check them out as well.

P.S.
Axis and Allies Revised is now officially a dead version of A&A (out of print, rules not current, etc)... while it may be the version you have, realize most people have moved on to the 2nd Edition rules in 1941, 1942 SE and 1940 SE.  Since 1942 Second Edition is basically the modern remake of Revised, almost any strategy that you hear about A&A 1942 SE can be applied to A&A Revised (and to some extent, vise-versa).  Also, rules for 1942 SE are available for free download... you could probably play Revised using most/all of Second Edition rules if you wanted to.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 06:37:04 am by Wolfshanze » Logged
ww2general
A&A.org Infantry
*
Posts: 11



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 04:35:57 pm »
0

Ah thank you very much Wolfshanze. That was the kind of information that I needed.
Logged
MarineIguana
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 88


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2016, 04:17:39 pm »
+1

This is almost certainly more advice than you are looking for. I'm going to give you the secret for playing near perfectly as Germany. This is tried and tested against the best Revised Axis and Allies players in the world across more than 500 games.

----------
Assumptions
----------
I'm assuming a bid of 9 by germany to ukraine, west russia, and libya
I'm also assuming that russia attacked ukraine with 4 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, 2 fig ; west russia with 9 inf, 1 tank, 1 art
I'm assuming this game is low luck with no tech
I'm assuming your goal is to maximize your probability of winning against an opponent.

The most common mistake I see with Germany players is that they think they're on the offensive. In reality, Germany is a very defensive country that receives allied pressure, while Japan pressures Russia.
Best practices:
1. buy almost all infantry. I usually spend 90+% of my germany IPC buying only infantry for the first 15-30 rounds. Eventually, Germany gets to a point where it can stack 3 territories with over 80 units each. This makes it difficult for UK to land and support Russia past round 30.
2. Prefer to attack and stack territories. This means moving a large force of units in an attack, so that the opponent can't counter. Axis and Allies is inherently a zero-sum game, so you win by accumulating profit through income or battles. Generally, the most profitable battles are: attacking & stacking > trading efficiently > attack & retreat > doing nothing > trading inefficiently.
As a general rule, germany can stack 2-3 territories safely against a strong allies. Always stack berlin (obviously), 2nd stack can alternate between France and Italy, 3rd stack between Karelia/Eastern Europe/Ukraine
3. Try to keep Germany strong. It's okay to make large trades against Russia, but avoid large trades with UK or USA unless it's for a large profit. The most common way I win against top allies is to accumulate stacks of 100+ infantry as Germany. Japan accumulates as well around Persia. By round 30-40, Japan has 300+ units and eventually forces Allies off Russia.

--------------
Round 1
--------------

Standard buy for germany is 10 inf, 2 tanks.

Typical combat scenario is:
>1 sub, 3 fig to sz13
>3 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 bomber to egypt
>1 battleship, 1 trans, 1 fig to sz15
>appropriate forces to trade ukraine. usually 2-3 inf + 1 fighter. Possibly as much as 3 inf, 1 tank, 1 fig if 3 russia tanks survived

Typical non-combat:
stack france. usually with 2 inf, 2 tanks, 4 fighters, 1 aa
stack karelia. usually 8-9 inf, 4 tanks, 1 aa
stack germany
empty belorussia or 1 inf
africa stacks libya
Logged
Ruin
A&A.org Infantry
*
Posts: 8


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2016, 05:16:45 pm »
0

Thank you for the input, marineiguana.  Great stuff (although 1 typo - R can only attack Ukr with 3 inf R1, not 4).

I can't add anything of value to that advice.  However I would like to additionally quibble with Wolfshanze:

1) messing with the UK or its seazones - after the boats are sank in turn one - is not usually a feasible option vs a competent player in a KGF.  They're not going to leave their main fleet where you can sink it or leave the island undefended.  Continuing efforts in this direction usually lead to a loss. 

2) Revised is far from dead.  The board game may not be produced any longer but at any given moment at a popular online site there might be 5 games of revised underway and 0-1 of 1942.  It's my opinion that the 1942 edition was not an improvement on revised.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 08:24:52 pm by Ruin » Logged
Kreuzfeld
A&A.org Tank
***
Posts: 387


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2016, 02:12:08 am »
0

MarineIguana has great advice. I have never played the allies against a german player playing that good (so I have always won as the allies)

If my experience is anything to go by, this is how the allied side of the board would look like.

In UK1, you can expect a UK counterattack on egypt, and depending on how the initial battles go, you can expect a UK landing in morocco with 4 units, being followed up by with 4 american Units. the allies will shuffle units into africa continously to the tune of about 8 US landunits and 6-8 UK landunits with some times a UK fighter.

The allied landunits will make their way across africa, lockind down africa south of sahara and continue east. In my experience I am able to get 1-3 allied stacks though persia into caucasus before japan shuts that path down being able to killzone it. for japan to be able to killzone it, the german stack on the other side needs to be able to bind the russian units in Cauc.

At some point, the allies will be expecting this shut down and swich their landingzone to norway. at this point, US will have one stack in W us, one in W canada. They will transport that W canada stack to norway every turn. The allied units left in africa will be staning in egypt, trading TJ with the japanese, making sure that japan cannot just snatch up africa. As long a TJ is traded, the allies cannot push their fleet though and threathen the japanese moneyislands (A deadly move if japan is bad enogh to allow it).

The allied landarmies that then will converge on russia will be massive, if the allies are strong enough to be able to lock down cauc and Russia with their landbridge to norway, and at the same time being able to hold on to africa, then the allies will win. If the axis are able to take cauc, then the axis will win.

This means: Build soooooo much infantry. I have had much more than 400 units in cauc with the allies.

To counter this, you will proabbly need 1-2 japanse factories on the mainland. If japan has 45+ IPC (not uncommon), and two factories on the mainland, they can build 3 art and 11 inf every turn.  (which they should). at the same time, USSR will build 8 inf (24 IPC), and uk will land 6 inf + 1 ftr  (28 IPC)and us will land 1 art, 1 tank and 8 inf (33 IPC). This means that the allies build about 23 units in this scenario, while Japan build 14, and germany has to build at least 9 to be able to match this.


One general point that I didn't touch upon: the german /axis airforce and the allied fleet dynamic.
The allied fleet will be a number of fighting ships and a number of transport ships. the size of it, compared to the biggest airforce in europe (usually the german) is extremly important. The most important question is: How many places can the allied fleet be at once. For example; if the allied fleet is; 2 BB, 2 CV, 1 DD and 9 TTs, then the allies can make two fleets, the weakest will have 1 BB, 1 CV, 2 ftrs and 5 TTs.  If the german airforce is 5 ftr and 1 Bomber, then the allied fleet can stand in two places, if the german airforce is 6 fighters and 1 bomber, then the allied fleet has to be in one place, and if it is going to split, one of its components has to go to the north sea where uk can build ships for it.

the general concept is; every german plane, will force the allied to use about 12 IPC on fleet for EACH of the fleets if they are going to try to stand two places.
Now to the second half of the dynamic; allied landingpotential.
If the allies can stand any place they want on the sea, they can land any place that they want. this means that you can start to expect a landing of 1 inf every sinlge turn in either normanie or italy, and a landing every single turn in places like estern europe, karelia or ukraine. This distruption is fairly dangerous for germany. germany will have to use their airforce with 1-2 infs to take the terr back, this means that the allies can skirmish back again (with BB support btw). These types of schirmishes is extremly draining for the german war economy and is why you will probably have that huge stack marineiguana talked about going back and forth. If it goes back and forth, you will still have the allies landing in s europe/normanie for free  and killing 1 ipc on defence, while collecting 6 ipc of income every turn. This is a game that is not good for germany.

I am not saying you should go overboard with the german airforce, just enough to keep the allies honest and make sure they cannot land with impunity.

^^this ofcourse assumes that the allies main plan of attack is to build a landbridge. If their main plan is to build 40 US TTs and threathen to land anywhere, then you should buy 0 planes. then you should only have the 3 big stacks, 1 in germany to prevent landing there, one in w europe/S europe to make sure you are able to kill anything landing and still having enough in germany and the last one in the east to make sure the russians don't get to much.

MarineIguana, am I correct in my experience?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 02:32:14 am by Kreuzfeld » Logged
MarineIguana
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 88


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 09:32:30 pm »
0

Broadly, you're thinking well about the allied play. I think there's little more that I can contribute without actually seeing your play.

A few thoughts:
1. I generally avoid moving US north after taking Africa as allies. UK can exert pressure on north europe, and US from the med. I feel that US in the north overlaps pressure that's not the most efficient. US can support russia through med by ukr and cauc.

2. deadzoning allied navy using germany air really isn't realistic. with germany 5 fig, 1 bomber, allies start with enough navy to be safe after 1 US carrier purchase. UK and US natually wants to buy transports to give pressure. Accumulating germany airforce makes these natural transport buys more efficient. I know a couple strong players who buy a few fighters; it's definitely playable though not my personal style.

3. The main way that axis wins is that germany blocks US/UK support eventually and japan deadzones Cauc, then Russia. The main way allies win is through reducing Germany through either Weur/Ita stack or karelia/ukr into a EEur stack. Which one prevails among two strong players depends on luck and accumulation of small profits through many rounds. There is strong consensus that a bid of 9 to axis balances the game very well.

4. Japan IC in FIC and India is standard. I do know one person i'd consider top 10-15 who consistently does east indies & india instead.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 09:34:12 pm by MarineIguana » Logged
Kreuzfeld
A&A.org Tank
***
Posts: 387


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 04:32:35 am »
0

MarineIguana Thankyou for a nice reply.

1. I usually don't move the US north either, I can never seem to find the time when it is time to do it. I have just always thought that doing that move would make for a more efficient transport bridge. This is because they can land 10-14 units every turn and just march on to w russia/moscow. Britain can only ever seem to land 6-8 units a turn, which might be the more correct size for africa. The downside of US doing it would be that they would have to find the time to put 12 inf in canada, 12 inf in W coast and redeploy their fleet.  So it made sense in my head, I just never found the time.

2. My idea here is more of a general axis point and some version of this is correct here. i will try to restate my idea in a more clear way.

As germany, you have a size of your airforce. After you have bought/have enough planes to trade effiently, there is only really one thing the airforce does better than landunits, and that is to deadzone the sea. So, in revised you will never be strong enough to deadzone a combined us/uk Navy. In the early few rounds (until round 5-7 depening on what you buy) you will be able to prevent the fleet from splitting into 2 seazones. You will be strong enough that if you move all your airplanes to France, then Wallies will have to unite their fleet and move away from objectives like norway. This might cost them a round of landing units.

You Could be able to prevent the allies from putting their fleet in 3 seazones. If they want to do that, they will probably have to buy 1 extra carrier.

As germany you should prevent the allies from splitting their fleet in 4. If luftwaffe is 4 planes, then the allies can split their fleet in 4 without hesitation. If you buy the 5th german plane, then the allies might have to respond to that by either merging their fleet to 3 zones, or buying a few more ships.

3. So, the Ita landings, I have done that many times. It is ok to lose whatever you dtrop in? the main point is to prevent germany from making more than 10 units and killing as many germans as you can, right?  If not, then you would have to have like 10-12 british transport and 15 US transports to b e able to land the stack you have to have to be an even serous treat to germany and prevent him from retaking it with a huge profit.

4. I have only played at BGO with bid, there a bid of 9 gives you an art in libya and a tank in algeria.  how do you place the bid of 9 as the axis?


one more Question:
What does the brit do in india on UK1

I have usually played with the BGO bid and Egypt falls in G1.

My fav move is to hit Egypt with everything (3 infs, 1 ftr 1 bomber). While I also land in algeria so that US can reinforce it. If I can do it, I now control Africa. I don't even have to take Egypt, I just have to kill what germany has there.
Logged
MarineIguana
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 88


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2016, 08:05:00 pm »
0

MarineIguana Thankyou for a nice reply.

one more Question:
What does the brit do in india on UK1

I have usually played with the BGO bid and Egypt falls in G1.

My fav move is to hit Egypt with everything (3 infs, 1 ftr 1 bomber). While I also land in algeria so that US can reinforce it. If I can do it, I now control Africa. I don't even have to take Egypt, I just have to kill what germany has there.

UK generally retreats all india to persia. Make sure UK bomber lands around russia to trade india R2.

Where does the 1 fighter to egypt come from? It's standard for Russia to hit Ukraine in all circumstances. The other fighter that can reach is needed for sz15. If you attack sz15, there's a 15% chance the battle goes badly where the battleship transport needs to retreat or battleship gets traded against uk destroyer. If either scenario happens, the game is effectively over against a top player. I prefer not to auto-lose 15% of my games as axis.

Because of the starting units, Germany is positioned to control Africa. A good US exerting proper pressure makes it very difficult for axis to continue stacking Egypt for more than 10-15 rounds. The highest allied pressure points are Round 5, round 8, and pretty much rounds 10+. The simple math is that US accumulates 10 units of pressure on Egypt a round. Germany starts with about 6 units advantage in Egypt, and reinforces at +2 a round. Japan needs to reinforce egypt at 7-8 a round to maintain parity. It's possible, but Russia then has a lot of freedom to bully Japan in other areas.

Probably the longest I've seen Axis control Egypt is 35 rounds, with 200 units in libya/Egypt. Axis lost this game after US transfered the stack into WEur with 16 transports and UK assistance. My point is that Axis holding Egypt is an advantage, but winning isn't a foregone conclusion.

Most common bid among top players is 1 inf ukr, 1 inf lib, 1 inf West Russia. art and tank to africa is definitely playable, but less common.

Logged
ABWorsham
A&A.org Bomber
*****
Posts: 2499


Capt. Archer Ben Worsham in 1918


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 06:09:13 am »
0

I usually attack Leningrad and attack the Caucasus mountains. My goal is to take Moscow by round three.
Logged
TripleA Xray
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
*
**
Posts: 50



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2016, 01:23:37 pm »
+1

That is a nice goal you have ABWorsham. Good luck with it!
Logged
Samolito
A&A.org New Conscript

Posts: 2


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 05:31:49 am »
0

A friend and I almost broke the game by putting almost all German money on recherche. To get long range for the air plains.
Then you can really easy take London the first turn. And with that start its almost impossible to lose.
But this is almost ruining the fun.
Logged
Ruin
A&A.org Infantry
*
Posts: 8


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 06:35:02 am »
0

That's why under Caspian Sub and tripleA ladder rules you can't attack an enemy capital with ground troops in your first turn.

Like you mentioned, it turns a wonderful game into a coin flip and spoils the fun.
Logged
Pages: 1
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

2017 Support Drive

Read about this support drive.
Support Level
Forum Username
Note: payee will appear as Livid Labs, LLC.
Buy Axis & Allies
  • Axis & Allies 1942 [Amazon]
  • A&A Pacific 1940 [Amazon]
  • A&A Europe 1940 [FMG]
  • [eBay]
  • [eBay]
  • A&A D-Day [Amazon]
  • A&A Battle of the Bulge [Amazon]
  • [eBay]
  • [eBay]
  • WWII Themed Combat Dice [FMG]



Axis and Allies.org Official Gold Sponsor: Historical Board Gaming

Axis & Allies.org Official Silver Sponsor: Field Marchal Games
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP © 2015 Livid Labs, LLC. All rights reserved.
Axis & Allies is registered trademark of Wizards of the Coast, a division of Hasbro, Inc.
Note: the copyright below is for the forum software only.
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!