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Author Topic: Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here  (Read 21373 times)
Gamerman01
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« on: April 09, 2013, 09:57:18 am »
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Mongolia:

1) If Japan attacks a Russian controlled territory bordering Mongolia, all of Mongolia is immediately Russian
   a) If Japan attacks Mongolia in the same combat move (as attacking a Russian controlled territory bordering Mongolia), they break neutrality of all strict neutrals
   b) This is the ONLY way all of Mongolia will immediately turn Russian without territories needing to be activated.

2) If Russia attacks Korea or a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then the Mongolians will never join Russia as in #1 above
If neither of the above takes place, Mongolia continues on as a strict neutral, but
1) Will NOT go pro-Axis if the Allies break neutrality elsewhere
  a) Mongolia ONLY goes pro-Axis if Russia directly attacks Mongolia.  This would break neutrality around the world (all strict neutrals go pro-the other side).
     i) Any OTHER Ally can attack Mongolia directly and this will break neutrality around the world, but the rest of Mongolia will stay neutral
  b) Mongolia WILL go pro-Allied if the Axis break strict neutrality anywhere, including Mongolia

Neutrals:
1) You can't move a tank through a friendly neutral that you just activated
  a) You CAN blitz strict neutrals and unfriendly neutrals
  b) You also can't non-com mech or tanks through the friendly neutral that you just took control of.
2) You CAN'T land air in any neutral that was neutral at the beginning of your turn
  a) You CAN land air in a neutral that has been attacked previously and joined your side (the infantry are still not controlled by a playable power because the territory has not been activated and is not controlled by any playable power yet)
3) You CAN'T fly over neutrals
  a) Except to attack it directly
  b) After attacking it, you CAN fly off where-ever you want as long as you don't fly over another neutral
  c) You CAN fly over a neutral that has been attacked previously, because it is actually no longer a neutral even if it was not conquered.  It has joined the opposing side.  You can do this in the non-combat move immediately following the attack.
4) You activate a friendly neutral with an infantry, artillery, mech, or tank.  You cannot activate a friendly neutral with only an AAA gun.
5) Despite what Triple A says, you do NOT declare war on neutrals.  You simply "attack" them (individually).

Beware: There are currently a lot of these rules that Triple A does not currently adhere to correctly.  You are responsible for knowing the rules yourself.  Don't rely on Triple A for rule interpretation.  Just because it allows it, doesn't mean it's legal.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 04:37:49 pm by Gamerman01 » Logged
Gamerman01
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 10:21:57 am »
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I will add Dutch rules:
I won't use the quote function because it will all be in small print with blue background, so I'll just cite the source.  This is from kcdzim:

Dutch territories are treated exactly the same as any other territory that is

a) friendly
b) lost their capitol.

The only difference between Dutch territories and say, French territories after Paris has been lost, is that the UK/Anzac have a special relationship that allows them to take control of them before they've been captured by moving a ground unit into it.  (Exception - the Dutch Guiana territory in South America) Typically you need to capture - this is the one of the two instances where control of a friendly territory passes to a friendly power.  The other instance is a neutral that has been attacked but not captured.

So when you're confused about things, ask yourself how you'd treat normandy if it were still french.

Can you UK/Anzac/US/Russia land a plane there?  Yes, as long as it started the turn friendly and they're not neutral.  Exactly the same as any other friendly territory.

The US is not barred from being in a dutch territory - they must be at war first, but then they're allowed to move into it just like any other friendly territory.
I will add one direct statement in an attempt to improve understanding and clarity:

The USA can NOT take control of a Dutch territory the way UK/ANZ can.  The only way for the USA to control a territory that was originally Dutch is if an Axis power takes it first.  Then if the USA takes it, they will control it.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:29:51 am by Gamerman01 » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 10:59:32 pm »
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Just to clarify. ANZAC can take Java round 1 then land 3 fighters on it. This is a pretty standard move from anzac.
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Gamerman01
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 11:54:08 pm »
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Just to clarify. ANZAC can take Java round 1 then land 3 fighters on it. This is a pretty standard move from anzac.
Yes, that's what kcdzim meant by saying Dutch territories are treated exactly the same as any other territory that is friendly and lost their capitol.  You can land your planes there - it's friendly.
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bmnielsen
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 11:16:57 pm »
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Can you modify allegiances in TripleA edit mode? One thing I've noticed is that if the axis attacks a strict neutral before (for example) Russia enters the war, TripleA treats them as still being strict neutrals to Russia, which I'm assuming is incorrect.
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Gamerman01
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 11:29:54 pm »
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If Russia is not at war with Germany or Italy, then all neutrals but Mongolia would still be inaccessible to them.
Does Triple A change the neutral status with relation to Russia once Russia is at war with G/I?
No, I don't believe Triple A currently allows edits to the politics matrix.  Not sure, but that might be added in the next version.
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514bishy
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 04:31:30 pm »
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Thanks for posting this info Gamerman. Just have a few more questions to be certain.

1)Mongolian question:
I have read in the forums that if Germany attacks a territory bordering Mongolia and Japan reinforces the territory it won't activate neutral Mongolia. Does the same apply for the allies, meaning if USA attacks Korea and Russians back them up, does that end the Mongolian pac?
Similarly if Britain places troops in Yunnan to back it up and Japan attacks it then Japan is declaring war on Britain correct?

2)Anzac and Dutch territories:
I still have a lot of trouble with this one...
Like Anzac, can Britain or a USA (at war) control a Dutch territory and gain the IPC value?
IF Japan controls these Dutch territories, Anzac, Britain and the USA can attack these territories correct? If Anzac can't collect the IPC value after that point can Britain or the USA collect it?

3)Extra AAA question:
Lets say you attack a territory with a transport and 2 infantry and there are no enemy units in it, can you then in non combat, on a different transport, bring a AAA gun in the territory?
What would be the procedure of the AAA on transport during combat? You load it up on a transport on one turn, then on the next turn you can load your infantry and attack. It clearly doesn't fire at any possible enemy air planes that might be on the territory so does it get used as a casualty? If it was the last unit alive, could it capture the territory?

4) Extra China question:
When the rulebook says that China can even control kwangtung and Burma if they take it from the axis & India is under axis power, does that mean that China will get kwangtung and Burmas IPC values?
When the allies are liberating French territories from the axis they do not collect the IPC value of those territories correct?

Thanks in advance  smiley
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 04:46:54 pm by 514bishy » Logged
elevenjerk
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 05:30:06 pm »
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Quote
If Russia attacks Korea or a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then the Mongolians will not join Russia

So Japan can attack Siberia and Soviet Far East but Russia can't attack Korea (none of which is bordering Mongolia)Huh?  Seems like another rule favoring the axis in a game where no one wants to be the allies undecided
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ghr2
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 05:42:23 pm »
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Quote
If Russia attacks Korea or a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then the Mongolians will not join Russia

So Japan can attack Siberia and Soviet Far East but Russia can't attack Korea (none of which is bordering Mongolia)Huh?  Seems like another rule favoring the axis in a game where no one wants to be the allies undecided

I love being the allies actually.  The Korea thingsmakes sense, this makes it harder for Russia to pull some BS.
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Gamerman01
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 07:01:33 pm »
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Thanks for posting this info Gamerman. Just have a few more questions to be certain.
You're welcome.  My pleasure
Quote
1)Mongolian question:
I have read in the forums that if Germany attacks a territory bordering Mongolia and Japan reinforces the territory it won't activate neutral Mongolia. Does the same apply for the allies, meaning if USA attacks Korea and Russians back them up, does that end the Mongolian pac?
Similarly if Britain places troops in Yunnan to back it up and Japan attacks it then Japan is declaring war on Britain correct?
The rule book says if Japan attacks a SOVIET CONTROLLED territory bordering Mongolia, so that's right, reinforcing won't turn Mongolia Russian.
The rule book says if Russia attacks Korea.  If Russia is reinforcing an Allied held Korea, Russia is not attacking Korea.
Britain moving anything into China is AN ACT OF WAR against Japan, so Japan could declare war on the British without bringing in the USA (would be provoked by the reinforcement of China by UK)
Quote
2)Anzac and Dutch territories:
I still have a lot of trouble with this one...
Like Anzac, can Britain or a USA (at war) control a Dutch territory and gain the IPC value?
IF Japan controls these Dutch territories, Anzac, Britain and the USA can attack these territories correct? If Anzac can't collect the IPC value after that point can Britain or the USA collect it?
Read my Dutch post again.  It clearly says the USA can only control a Dutch territory if it is taken by an Axis power FIRST.  ONLY ANZAC/UK have the special relationship that allows them to take control from the Dutch directly.  I don't understand the last part of the question.  ANZAC can take control of a Dutch territory if it was Dutch or Axis controlled.
Quote
3)Extra AAA question:
Lets say you attack a territory with a transport and 2 infantry and there are no enemy units in it, can you then in non combat, on a different transport, bring a AAA gun in the territory?
Yes
Quote
What would be the procedure of the AAA on transport during combat? You load it up on a transport on one turn, then on the next turn you can load your infantry and attack. It clearly doesn't fire at any possible enemy air planes that might be on the territory so does it get used as a casualty?
AAA can not be brought in by an attacker.  It can only be used as a casualty by defenders.
Quote
If it was the last unit alive, could it capture the territory?
You can't use AAA in attack.  They can only be moved in noncombat.  They cannot take friendly neutrals by themselves either.  You can't load them onto transports in combat movement.
Quote
4) Extra China question:
When the rulebook says that China can even control kwangtung and Burma if they take it from the axis & India is under axis power, does that mean that China will get kwangtung and Burmas IPC values?
Yes
Quote

When the allies are liberating French territories from the axis they do not collect the IPC value of those territories correct?

Thanks in advance  smiley
No, the Allies are not liberating the French territories.  When a capital is in enemy hands, you can directly take control of that power's territories.  For example, if Moscow falls, the Allies can take control of Russian territories IF they wrest them from the Axis.  If the Axis never took control and it is still Russian, it will stay Russian when Allies move into it.  Same thing with France.  If the Axis never take Morocco, Syria, Algeria, or Tunisia from France, then the Allies can not possibly control them.  However, if Italy takes French territories and then an Ally takes it back, if Paris is still under Axis control then that Ally will take control of the originally French territory.

The INSTANT Paris is liberated, all original French territories under ALLIED control will revert to French control.  This means that if you have Normandy with USA, for example, and you bought 3 units to place on Normandy but you liberate France, you will NOT be able to place anything at Normandy on that USA turn because Normandy turned French the instant Paris was liberated.

These rules (about territories of powers that lost their capital) have actually been in effect for 30 years - since the original version.  I don't know how long you've been playing, though, and it's certainly more confusing with G40, what with capitals starting under enemy control (Dutch) and what all  smiley
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:04:29 pm by Gamerman01 » Logged
514bishy
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2013, 05:14:52 pm »
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Big thx again Gamerman for all the help. You know I haven't been playing for 30 years and have only played global 3 times. Before global I have not played one game that continued (maybe 1 round max) after a capital has been captured, so you see there is still a lot of new stuff for me. Sometimes its the way I misread something but what is the best for me is the scenarios & examples, like the way you described them. That clearly explains a lot and makes things super clear so again thx for the effort.

I have reread your post about the Anzac and think I have finally got it. You did specify about the USA there so I apologize for that.

I will phrase what I think is correct and you can correct me if Im wrong...please Cheesy

"The UK & ANZAC are the ONLY 2 countries that can take control (collecting IPC value) of Dutch territories before they have been controlled by the Axis. Otherwise, if a Dutch territory is in control of an Axis power, it must be attacked by the UK/ANZAC/USA(at war) to be controlled(collecting IPC value)"

If what I wrote is correct then I believe it is whats written on the top left of page 9 of the Pacific Rulebook that confused the crap out of me:
'As a result, they are free to move units into these territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan.'
I know that at the end of that paragraph it does say 'Once a Dutch territory has been captured by Japan, however, it may be captured and controlled by any power.'
But the part that says 'as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan' should have been followed up with more explanation and some scenarios tongue or just not there at all cause otherwise isnt it obvious cheesy
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 05:26:16 pm by 514bishy » Logged
Gamerman01
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2013, 07:37:13 pm »
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Sounds like you got it, bishy, great
Glad you find my stuff helpful - I like to help people and explain stuff
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ghr2
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 05:27:36 pm »
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Every month I'm Bum-umping!  *Plays the Party Rock Anthem
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Gamerman01
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 08:45:11 pm »
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Still tons of questions coming in about this very confusing set of rules

Bumping to top
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ampdrive
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2014, 04:24:39 pm »
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Just want to clarify 1 more thing?
Mongolia is the only nuetral consisting of more than 1 territory.Can you have a situation where 1 area has joined Russia or gone pro-axis while other parts are still neutral?
 My assumption is Mongolia is divided into 6 territories to reflect lack of road and rail at the time .
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