Euro40 Starting fleets

[allweneedislove]

This is an estimation of the starting fleets for Euro40 and Global40.

I am using almashir's research of countries' real life fleets in 1940. His information was in a thread titled "what will be wrong with Euro40", and that just did not sound correct for this topic, so I have created this thread.

Well, to give you an idea of why the disposition of the French fleet might make a difference, the list below is my best guess (I spent some time researching it) about actual fleet strength around May-June 1940:

(Abbreviations:  BB=battleship (includes battlecruisers), CA=heavy cruiser, CL=light cruiser, DD=destroyer, CV=carrier, SS=sub)

US:  15 BB, 18 CA, 19 CL, 118 DD, 7 CV, 112 SS    (+2 more BB built but undergoing sea trials, and 4 more under construction.  Also had a CV and 15 DD under construction)

Britain (includes ANZAC, Canada, etc.):  16 BB, 21 CA, 49 CL, 214 DD, 6 CV, 78 SS    (+1 BB built, and 5 more under construction.  +8 more CL under construction, with 6 of those almost finished.  +7 CV under construction, with 2 of those almost finished.  Also 65 more DD either under construction or in the process of being transferred from the US under Lend Lease)

France:  8 BB, 7 CA, 11 CL, 70 DD, 20-30 SS     (+2 more BB nearly built).

USSR:  3 BB, 4 CA, 2 CL, 68 DD, 218 SS    (+2 more BB under construction.  Note:  Many of these ships were leftovers from the Tzar's navy, and had not been modernized or properly maintained).

Germany:  4 BB, 7 CA, 6 CL, 26 DD, 240 SS    (+1 CV and probably a couple of hundred SS under construction)

Netherlands:  5 CL, 12-14 DD

Japan:  10 BB, 18 CA, 20 CL, 108 DD, 8 CV, 68 SS     (+2 BB, 2 CL, 15 DD, and 6 CV under construction)

Italy:  6 BB, 9 CA, 13 CL, 59 DD, 146 SS     (+2 BB, 4 CL, and 1 CV under construction)

Since Japan is the only power that we have the games full navy setup and real life navy size, I have used it as the baseline for getting the ratios for estimating other powers navies. Since the game does not have heavy and light cruisers I have combined them. I have ignored any units under construction as those can be shown by players purchasing those units.

Japan's real navy:     10 BB, 38 CA, 108 DD, 8 CV, 68 SS
Japan's game navy:    2 BB,   2 CA,    4 DD, 3 CV,   2 SS
Ratio of real to game: 5/1,    19/1,    27/1,   8/3,  34/1

Using the preceding ratios we get the following game navies

USA's game navy:                  3 BB, 1.9 CA, 4.3 DD, 2.6 CV, 3.3 SS
Commonwealth's game navy: 3.2 BB, 3.7 CA, 7.9 DD, 2.3 CV, 2.3 SS
France's game navy:            1.6 BB, 0.9 CA, 2.6 DD,   0 CV, 0.7 SS
USSR's game navy:              0.6 BB, 0.3 CA, 2.5 DD,   0 CV, 6.4 SS
Germany's game navy:          0.8 BB, 0.7 CA,   1 DD,   0 CV,    7 SS
Italy's game navy:               1.2 BB, 1.2 CA, 2.2 DD,   0 CV, 4.3 SS

Now with my professional fudging and some sketchy reasoning I will put what I assume will be the games starting navy sizes.
USA will probably be slightly reduced as this has been seen in 1942 version where USA navy should be WAY bigger, but for balance reasons they are reduced. France battleships will probably be rounded down to show that it was not fully cohesive navy. USSR will mostly be rounded down as its navy was mostly older ships. Germany will probably be very close to ratio. Italy will probably have less subs as they were not 4/7ths as effective as Germany's subs.

USA's game navy:               3 BB, 2 CA, 4 DD, 2 CV, 2 SS
Commonwealth's game navy: 3 BB, 4 CA, 8 DD, 1 CV, 2 SS
France's game navy:            1 BB, 1 CA, 2 DD, 0 CV, 1 SS
USSR's game navy:              0 BB, 0 CA, 2 DD, 0 CV, 2 SS
Germany's game navy:          1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 0 CV, 7 SS
Italy's game navy:               1 BB, 1 CA, 2 DD, 0 CV, 2 SS

[Krupp Steel]

nice thinking, looks like it very well could be around those numbers, if thats close to Germany's starting navy we will be pouring IPC's into the Kriegsmarine for a Sealion. I guess we just have to wait & see.

[Imperious Leader]

Can you do this for all nations represented in G40?

Include prominent neutrals

[Tralis]

Do the ratios hold up for the other powers in AAP40?

[calvinhobbesliker]

You can't tell, because only part of the commonwealth and US navies are on the board

[Brain Damaged]

You show the estimated game navies for all the countries, but can you post the actual navies for all countries.

[calvinhobbesliker]

You show the estimated game navies for all the countries, but can you post the actual navies for all countries.

It was in his quote box

[Brain Damaged]

You show the estimated game navies for all the countries, but can you post the actual navies for all countries.

It was in his quote box

Thanks didn't catch that. Also didn't know that you could quote from another thread.

[idk_iam_swiss]

What are the prominent neutrals?

[Brain Damaged]

What are the prominent neutrals?

Neutrals with a navy.

[allweneedislove]

Do the ratios hold up for the other powers in AAP40?

if we assume these numbers to be accurate or close to accurate then here is how the navies would be for euro40. i am guessing ussr will have no naval units on the pacific board. so ussr, germany, and italy navies will be the same as my first post. japan will not have any navy on the euro board.

so the 2 powers that are affected are usa and commonwealth(i use this term instead of uk as a nod to our canadian friends). all we need to do is subtract the units that we know on pac40 map from the full power estimates.

USA's game navy:                  3 BB, 2 CA, 4 DD, 2 CV, 2 SS
USA's pac40 navy:                 1 BB, 1 CA, 2 DD, 1 CV, 1 SS
USA's euro40 navy:                2 BB, 1 CA, 2 DD, 1 CV, 1 SS

Commonwealth's game navy:   3 BB, 4 CA, 8 DD, 1 CV, 2 SS
Commonwealth's pac40 navy:  1 BB, 1 CA, 2 DD, 0 CV, 1 SS
Commonwealth's euro40 navy: 2 BB, 3 CA, 6 DD, 1 CV, 1 SS

i assume all usa navy will be off the coast of east usa.
i assume uk will have units scattered around atlantic and med with a good chunk to be sunk on g1 and i1.

[Brain Damaged]

Thanks for the info allweneedisweed. These numbers will help me in some of my future endeavors.

[Danger Mouse]

Very nice 

[idk_iam_swiss]

Yes. Finland, Spain, Turkey(?)

[TitusAndronicus]

More important than what ships you start with is where they are.  If you would've told me Pacific 1940 would've had the UK starting with 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD and 2 Transports I would've been pretty impressed with the UK's naval abilities.  However, as we all know, half of that Navy gets wiped out turn 1 at little cost.

Now, I hope the UK gets a starting CV somewhere in the Med or Atlantic.  I also hope it cant be sunk right off the bat by German submarines.