HBG Japan Supplement Set

[Tall Paul]

Everyone,

    Today December 7th, 2011 marks the 70th anniversary of the Attack on Pearl Harbor.  I believe it's important that we remember and honor the sacrifices made by many who preceded us.

    It would be great to have more American and Japanese Naval and other units to be able to recreate the titanic struggle between them 70 years ago.

    And also some new games like the "Coach's" Pearl Harbor" game.

                                                                                  Respectfully,
                                                                                  "Tall Paul"

[knp7765]

I also agree the G8N "Rita" would make a great Japanese Heavy Bomber to add to the game.

Militaryman i think the air crafts will be remakes of the oob molds, just like the germans

FMG didn't totally remake OOB molds.  While they are doing the Me109 for the fighter and Ju87 Stuka for the tac (I would have liked to see the Me110 for a new tac, but whatever), they did choose a different bomber.  FMG is making the He111 (OOB is Ju88).

[Hobbes]

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/Nippon/Japanese.htm

G5N
G8N
Ki91

Nice ones. Thanks for the site. The Rita sort of resembles a B-17 but the Liz is more unusual, specially the cockpit areas.

[WARRIOR888]

Coach, here are some ideas for an Imperial Japanese set.  This is going to be awesome.
CV  Akagi or Kaga
CVL Ruyjo or Hosho
BB  Nagato 16 inch guns or Fuso class 14 inch guns
BB/CV Ise
CA Mogami Class
Type 65 Super Cruiser Projected never built
CL Nagara or Jintsu Class
DD Akitsuki class 8 x 3.9 guns in dual gun mounts.
The Japanese specifically designed these vessels to provide AA defense for aircraft carriers. Akitsuki, Terutsuki, Hatsusuki, Niitsuki, Wakatsuki, and Shimotsuki were destroyed in World War II. Suzutsuki, Fuyutsuki, Hanatsuki, and Natsutsuki were scrapped in 1948. In 1947, the other two units, Yoitsuki and Harutsuki, were transferred to China and the Soviet Union, respectively. The Chinese scrapped their vessel in 1963; the Soviets expended their unit as a missile target ship sometime in the late 1960s.
Heavy Bomber Rita or Nell
Long Range Recon Mavis Flying Boat
Kate Torpedo Bomber
Val Dive Bomber
Type 89 15CM Cannon was the main gun of the Imperial Japanese Army heavy artillery units. It was widely used from the Manchurian Incident to the end of World War II, for example, Nomonhan, Bataan and Corregidor Island, Okinawa

Coach again just some ideas

WARRIOR888

[WARRIOR888]

Coach, I left one idea out, here it is.
The Type 90 240mm Railway Gun was initially deployed as a coastal artillery battery at Futtsu, Chiba, as part of the defenses guarding the entrance to Tokyo Bay. It was redeployed to Manchukuo in 1941, and based in the Hulin area of Heilongjiang, as part of the defenses against the Soviet Union, where it remained for the duration of World War II. When the Soviet Union invaded Manchukuo in the closing days of the war, the gun was destroyed by retreating Kwangtung Army forces and abandoned.

Now that would give the IJA a very unique unit!

WARRIOR888

[AG124]

I would love to see HBG produce a Japanese set sooner rather than later (although I hope to see continued coordination with FMG to avoid too many duplicates). Anyway, the following are some of my thoughts:

CV - Japan has a variety of CV's from which to choose, and I'd like to see at least two classes represented. Kaga, Soryu, and the Shokaku class rank near the top of my personal list of preferences. I also wouldn't complain if either FMG or HBG chose the Taiho (I think FMG may have expressed an intention to produce Taiho as the Japanese CV choice, but I'm not sure now).

CVL/CVE - I hope to see at least one CVL or CVE for each nation (although Germany did not receive the Seydlitz/Wesser in any of its current sets), and Japan is no exception. I would personally prefer the Zuiho class CVL, followed by the Taiho class CVE (only one is necessary for this set; the other could follow in a dedicated supplementary set).

BB - The two main classes I would hope to see are the Kongo class and the Yamato class (as a note to earlier posters in this thread, the Kongo class were no longer classified as battlecruisers following their post-WWI reconstruction). I know that HBG expressed a preference for one over the other, and indicated that FMG may produce the other choice. Any further IJN BB choices can be produced through a supplementary naval set should such a set be produced.

CA/CL - If FMG produces a CA, then HBG will probably produce a CL, based on past comments from coachofmany. A Nagara class CL would have a markedly differing visual appearance from any IJN CL, and thus may be a good choice for this reason. Another factor in favour of the Nagara class could be the sheer number of vessels represented by the sculpt; 6 vessels of the Nagara class, and 5 of the very similar Kuma class. If FMG and HBG are both producing CA's, then my top three preferences are the Mogami, Takao, and Tone classes.

DD - If HBG and FMG each produce one of the Kagero class and Akitsuki class, that would be fine, IMO.

SS - I think that only one sub sculpt is really necessary, hopefully the B1 class.

AK/AP/AO - I would be satisfied with one auxiliary sculpt from FMG, but I hope that every nation receives a tanker sometime in the future.

Armour - The two main choices here are obviously the Type 95 Ha-Go and the Type 97 Chi-Ha, but depending on FMG's choices, the Type 89 I-Go ("Chi-Ro") and Type 3 Chi-Nu medium tank would work as well (particularly the Chi-Nu)

SPG and Tank Destroyer - I hope that HBG remains consistent in choosing to produce these unit types; I would personally hope to see the Type 1 Ho-Ni and the Type 4 Ho-Ro.

Mechanized Infantry - Type 1 Ho-Ha Half Track.

Heavy Bomber - I am glad to see that HBG will continue to ensure that each nation receives a four-engined bomber; my Japanese choice would be the G5N "Liz", an aircraft which I have always liked.

Medium Bomber - If FMG is already producing a two-engined bomber (confirmed to be a G4M "Betty"), then I wouldn't place any priority on receiving a second sculpt).

Tactical/Fighter-Bomber - Between FMG and HBG, I would like to see both the D3A "Val" and B5N "Kate".

Fighter - Between FMG and HBG, I would like to see the KI-43 "Oscar," A6M2 Zero "Zeke", and N1K1 "George."

[coachofmany]

Coach, I left one idea out, here it is.
The Type 90 240mm Railway Gun was initially deployed as a coastal artillery battery at Futtsu, Chiba, as part of the defenses guarding the entrance to Tokyo Bay. It was redeployed to Manchukuo in 1941, and based in the Hulin area of Heilongjiang, as part of the defenses against the Soviet Union, where it remained for the duration of World War II. When the Soviet Union invaded Manchukuo in the closing days of the war, the gun was destroyed by retreating Kwangtung Army forces and abandoned.

Now that would give the IJA a very unique unit!

WARRIOR888

You are dreaming!

[WARRIOR888]

Dreams are ok.
If anyone ever produces one of these it would be interesting.  Like I said an idea.
WARRIOR888

[Tall Paul]

Everyone,

    I thought it might assist everyone if we just filled in the blanks for our choices of Japanese units, starting with the Aircraft.  I can't remember all of FMG's and HBG's stated choices but I'm sure someone will point them out.  Also, I've included a few "categories" of units that might not be made.  I'll add my choices including their American opponents later.  

                                                    AIRCRAFT
    
 ARMY FIGHTER-EARLY              ARMY FIGHTER-MID             ARMY FIGHTER-LATE

 NAVY FIGHTER-EARLY              NAVY FIGHTER-MID              NAVY FIGHTER-LATE

                                             FIGHTER/BOMBER

                                      TACTICAL TORPEDO BOMBER

                                          TACTICAL DIVE BOMBER

    LIGHT BOMBER                        MEDIUM BOMBER                 HEAVY BOMBER

                                    VERY LONG RANGE HEAVY BOMBER

                                                  TRANSPORT

                              SEAPLANE          SEAPLANE-LONG RANGE


                                                                                     "Tall Paul"

[CWO Marc]

I thought it might assist everyone if we just filled in the blanks for our choices of Japanese units, starting with the Aircraft.

        LIGHT BOMBER                        MEDIUM BOMBER                 HEAVY BOMBER
                                    VERY LONG RANGE HEAVY BOMBER
                                              

Since all heavy bombers are long-range aircraft, and since the term "heavy bomber" usually gets applied to planes such as the Lancaster and the B-17 Flying Fortress, I assume that "very long range heavy bomber" refers to heavy bombers with ranges significantly greater than the Lanc or the B-17.  The American B-29 Superfortress certainly fits that description, but the Japanese had no corresponding aircraft.  In fact, I don't think there was any other bomber in the world which had the B-29's range.  It was in a class by itself.

[Tall Paul]

Well,

    Here are my suggestions for Japanese aircraft that would be the equivilents of the American aircraft TYPES that have already been made, planned or spoken about.  It's somewhat all-inclusive and meant to be used as a reference.

 
                                        JAPANESE AIRCRAFT
    
 ARMY FIGHTER-EARLY              ARMY FIGHTER-MID             ARMY FIGHTER-LATE
  Ki-27 Type 97 "Nate"              Ki-43 Type 1 "Oscar"    Ki-61 Type 3 "Tony"

 NAVY FIGHTER-EARLY              NAVY FIGHTER-MID              NAVY FIGHTER-LATE
 A5M Type 96 "Claude"            A6M Type 0 "Zeke"                    *

                                             FIGHTER/BOMBER
                                              N1K2-J "George"

                                      TACTICAL TORPEDO BOMBER
                                         B5N Type 97 "Kate"

                                          TACTICAL DIVE BOMBER
                                          D3A Type 99 "Val"

 EARLY LIGHT BOMBER                  MEDIUM BOMBER                 HEAVY BOMBER
  G3M Type 96 "Nell"                G4M Type 1 "Betty"         G5N "Liz"

                                    VERY LONG RANGE HEAVY BOMBER
                                                      Ki-91

                                                  TRANSPORT
                                           Type LO "Thelma"

     SEAPLANE-EARLY                     SEAPLANE-LATE       SEAPLANE-LONG RANGE
   F1M2 Type 0 "Pete"                 A6M2N Type 2 "Rufe"   H8K Type 2 "Emily"

Notes:

    The "Zeke", "Kate", and "Val" are obviously necessary.  These units are in the OOB set-up already,...although I hope that HBG & FMG might make us some much improved versions of these?

    The "Nate" would counter the P-40 "Warhawk" TYPE in HBGs US Supplement set.

    The "Oscar" would counter the P-38 "Lightning" TYPE as a mid-war Fighter.

    The "Tony", was an inline engine fighter for the JAAF and as such was quite unique.  One of the attributes the "Coach" desires.

    The "Claude" would counter the F-4F "Wildcat" TYPE that is the OOB Navy fighter in the Guadalcanal and earlier Pacific version of A&A.  

    The "George" would counter the F-4U "Corsair" TYPE in HBGs US Marine set.

    The "Nell" is proposed because of their widespread use.  Naval units of these sank the "Prince of Wales" and "Repulse" at the war's start.  They were also somewhat unique looking.  I hope that this historically important a/c might eventually be produced.  It always reminded me of a flying Lizard.

    The "Liz" would be an interesting choice as a 4-engined Japanese Heavy Bomber to counter the B-17(OOB) and B-24 TYPES from FMG.  It's being twin-tailed would continue this feature of the "Nell" type.

    The Ki-91 would counter the B-29 "SuperFortress" TYPE that HBG has proposed in it's US Naval Set(s).

    The "Thelma" Transport would give us a "big bang for the buck" through being used as an Allied Transport, too.  

    The "Thelma" also looks surprisingly simular to the Lockheed PV-1 Ventura Patrol/Bomber that was used by many Allied Nations.  Thereby increasing our "Fun" and HBGs sales.  

    The US C-47 that FMG will produce can also be used as a Japanese L2D Type 0 "Tabby" Transport.  Again, more FUN, and increased sales which benifits us ALL.

    The "Emily" Seaplane would counter the PBY TYPE that HBG has proposed in it's US Naval set(s).

    I added the "Pete" and "Rufe" TYPES simply to be thorough.  A US "Coronado" and "Kingfisher" TYPES would complete the US equivilents.

    OK, which of these aircraft has FMG already planned?  Obviously we can eliminate any previously planned a/c from our "wanted/needed" list.

                                                                                    "Tall Paul"
          

[Tall Paul]

CWO Marc,

    Yes Chief, you're correct in that most heavy bombers were long range aircraft.  And the B-29 "SuperFortress" was described as "VLR", standing for Very Long Range, and thus it's descriptive seperation.  However people care to describe them, the B-29's were definately in a seperate class.  

    I also understand that Japan didn't field (m)any 4-engine Bombers.  But the "Coach" is simply trying to allow us, the players, the option of having them included in our games.  By the same token, I believe he is also going to produce some German JU-488 Bombers in his "WW2 German Late War" set.

    While having Japanese 4-engine Bombers might be historically incorrect, I feel most players would welcome the option to decide for themselves if they wanted them or not.  

    I'm thankful to the "Coach" for his insight to provide the appropriate units for each country making the game not only even across the board, but more FUN.

                                                                                      "Tall Paul"    

[Lunarwolf]

Well,

    Here are my suggestions for Japanese aircraft that would be the equivilents of the American aircraft TYPES that have already been made, planned or spoken about.  It's somewhat all-inclusive and meant to be used as a reference.

 
                                        JAPANESE AIRCRAFT
    
 ARMY FIGHTER-EARLY              ARMY FIGHTER-MID             ARMY FIGHTER-LATE
  Ki-27 Type 97 "Nate"              Ki-43 Type 1 "Oscar"    Ki-61 Type 3 "Tony"

 NAVY FIGHTER-EARLY              NAVY FIGHTER-MID              NAVY FIGHTER-LATE
 A5M Type 96 "Claude"            A6M Type 0 "Zeke"                    *

                                             FIGHTER/BOMBER
                                              N1K2-J "George"

                                      TACTICAL TORPEDO BOMBER
                                         B5N Type 97 "Kate"

                                          TACTICAL DIVE BOMBER
                                          D3A Type 99 "Val"

 EARLY LIGHT BOMBER                  MEDIUM BOMBER                 HEAVY BOMBER
  G3M Type 96 "Nell"                G4M Type 1 "Betty"         G5N "Liz"

                                    VERY LONG RANGE HEAVY BOMBER
                                                      Ki-91

                                                  TRANSPORT
                                           Type LO "Thelma"

     SEAPLANE-EARLY                     SEAPLANE-LATE       SEAPLANE-LONG RANGE
   F1M2 Type 0 "Pete"                 A6M2N Type 2 "Rufe"   H8K Type 2 "Emily"

Notes:

    The "Zeke", "Kate", and "Val" are obviously necessary.  These units are in the OOB set-up already,...although I hope that HBG & FMG might make us some much improved versions of these?

    The "Nate" would counter the P-40 "Warhawk" TYPE in HBGs US Supplement set.

    The "Oscar" would counter the P-38 "Lightning" TYPE as a mid-war Fighter.

    The "Tony", was an inline engine fighter for the JAAF and as such was quite unique.  One of the attributes the "Coach" desires.

    The "Claude" would counter the F-4F "Wildcat" TYPE that is the OOB Navy fighter in the Guadalcanal and earlier Pacific version of A&A.  

    The "George" would counter the F-4U "Corsair" TYPE in HBGs US Marine set.

    The "Nell" is proposed because of their widespread use.  Naval units of these sank the "Prince of Wales" and "Repulse" at the war's start.  They were also somewhat unique looking.  I hope that this historically important a/c might eventually be produced.  It always reminded me of a flying Lizard.

    The "Liz" would be an interesting choice as a 4-engined Japanese Heavy Bomber to counter the B-17(OOB) and B-24 TYPES from FMG.  It's being twin-tailed would continue this feature from the "Nell" and "Betty" types.

    The Ki-91 would counter the B-29 "SuperFortress" TYPE that HBG has proposed in it's US Naval Set(s).

    The "Thelma" Transport would give us a "big bang for the buck" through being used as an Allied Transport, too.  

    The "Thelma" also looks surprisingly simular to the Lockheed PV-1 Ventura Patrol/Bomber that was used by many Allied Nations.  Thereby increasing our "Fun" and HBGs sales.  

    The US C-47 that FMG will produce can also be used as a Japanese L2D Type 0 "Tabby" Transport.  Again, more FUN, and increased sales which benifits us ALL.

    The "Emily" Seaplane would counter the PBY TYPE that HBG has proposed in it's US Naval set(s).

    I added the "Pete" and "Rufe" TYPES simply to be thorough.  A US "Coronado" and "Kingfisher" TYPES would complete the US equivilents.

    OK, which of these aircraft has FMG already planned?  Obviously we can eliminate any previously planned a/c from our "wanted/needed" list.

                                                                                    "Tall Paul"
          

the tony would be great for a second Japanese fighter. could represent either late war fighter or an Army fighter

[knp7765]

I can understand the wanting for "early war" fighters and "late war" fighters, but do we really want a distinction between an "army" fighter and a "navy" fighter?  I mean, in general, navy fighters would basically be carrier based and army fighters would be land based and not capable of landing on carriers due to pilot training and equipment variations. 
A lot of times I will fly out planes from a land base for an attack then have them land on carriers, or visa-versa.  If some planes are considered army planes, technically that would mean they couldn't land on a carrier. 
Is this a rule some of you are considering?  If so, this could severly hamper some air operations, especially for Japan and USA in the Pacific.  Imagine having 5 or 6 fighters available for a sea battle but due to range limits they could only land on a carrier.  However, they are "army" fighters so they can't land on a carrier because they aren't designed for it.  So they are basically useless for this battle.  Although, it might be interesting making players be more careful about which fighters they put where.  Perhaps "navy" fighters would cost 1 IPC extra to represent the extra equipment and training involved in carrier landings?  Or you simply have to choose between one or the other and deal with the restrictions.  It might be noted that a navy fighter could still operate from land bases making it a little more versatile.