Simply use the historical correct colours!
And please in this regard stay away from this red/brown nonsense for Russia WWI!
It’s beige!
(The RED revolution had yet to come up in 1917!)
France is on a good way! (and of course it’s colour #3!)
Simply use the historical correct colours!
And please in this regard stay away from this red/brown nonsense for Russia WWI!
It’s beige!
(The RED revolution had yet to come up in 1917!)
France is on a good way! (and of course it’s colour #3!)
Episode 3: Historical Accuracy Part 2
Advent 1st - Time to end the silence with a photo of the map!*
*Final version 2012 features the same map but with some adjustments/changes/additions. I do not have a photo of it but will upload one with an ongoing match later.
Thx for trying it!
And thx too for agreeing it is the best way! :-)
One little correction: It has to be 1 A-H Inf unloading into Vienna, of course.
One little remark: R2 Germany builds 1 transport. (maybe, but this would be max. 2)
More survivable AND more effective (in destroying enemy IPCs)!
@Imperious:
Why make a new map neglecting the historical economic strength of the regions (again)?
OOB is wrong enough!Because that is less important than making a more balanced game.
Correct, but in my opinion it is possible to deliver to both camps!
Example: If Poland gets more IPCs it:
1. helps CP balancewise
2. correctly refelcts Poland as the No1 industrial region of Imperial Russia.
So, where is the problem?
@Imperious:
The OOB setup/IPCs greatly favors the Allies!
So why not give the CPs some meat (like Poland with 4 or 5 IPCs) if it correspondends with history?
(needs some playtesting, sure)The tournament RULES address that issue.
The map file addresses obvious Historical points raised by others and makes corrections.
The space between Russian capital and Berlin do allow Germany to grab less IPC than before due to the new distribution, but also makes it harder to reinforce them due to the capital’s location. That means a tradeoff.
I don’t make a map to address balance, rules are used to correct that.
Why make a new map neglecting the historical economic strength of the regions (again)?
OOB is wrong enough!
@IL
The OOB setup/IPCs greatly favors the Allies!
So why not give the CPs some meat (like Poland with 4 or 5 IPCs) if it correspondends with history?
(needs some playtesting, sure)
How did you get the idea of naming Northern Germany Lower Saxony?
Lower Saxony as a state did not exist in 1914.
Former Kingdom of Hannover became part 0f Prussia 1866 already so in my opinion the best solution naming the tt AND include Holstein, Oldenburg and (parts of Königreich Hannover though politically Prussian) is a clear-cut summarizing region name like Norddeutschland. This method is also often used in former A&A games.
Northern or North-Western Prussia does not fit, though!
Awesome work, IL!!!
Some minor corrections/suggestions:
1. Bulgaria should not be activated by the Turks (they were enemies in the 2nd Balcan War just 2 years ago! Absolutely not!)
-> Make it a German activation (historically correct) or a German OR AH one.
-> Turks is totally wrong, almost as wrong as Moscow as the Russian capital! :wink:
2. Names
-> Keep Prussia for the tt with Berlin
-> Name Kiel “Northern Germany” (that is the proper term for this region “Norddeutschland”, Kiel is just a city)
-> Name the intended Talinn tt Estonia (btw the Estonian capital was officially called Reval until 24th February 1918!)
-> Name Sewastopol Caucasus
-> Name St. Petersburg Karelia
-> Name Moscow Russia
This way all tt names are consistent in having tt names (major cities in like Moscow where you are allowed to produce in addition to capitals can be printed on the map to indicate production capability! This way Russia could produce in St. Petersburg AND Moscow, Germany in Prussia (Berlin) AND Ruhr (Essen).
3. Production
Production capacity in Russia:(derived from statistical data)
a) Poland was the most industrialized region in Imperial Russia; Germany conquering it early was a big blow to the Russian war effort
-> Poland: 5 IPCs (if you think it is too much balancewise make it a 4 IPC at least!)
b) Moscow 4 IPCs (2nd advanced region)
c) St. Petersburg 3 IPCs
d) Ukraine 3 IPCs (granary of Russia!)
e) Estonia 1 IPC (each Baltic state ought to be 1 IPC)
4. Neutrals
a) Albania hardly was a sovereign state anymore at the start of the war. RUled by a German governor who left when war broke out to serve his fatherland it was in total disarray. It should have no diplomatic tendency. 1 IPC.
b) Greece was strictly neutral for a long period of the war because of its German friendly king. Joining the Allies should be made possible only later in the war.
IDEA: Print a round specification beside the roundel for activation! This way the game could flow even more historically!
-> Examples: Greece R5, Bulgaria R3, Romania R4, etc.
So, again, overall AWESOME work!!!
(….and I surely want this map!)
Episode 3: Historical Accuracy - Part 1
Ready for a new history lesson? :-D
Here we go:
How would it really feel to be in the position of the great WWI military leaders? Erich von Falkenhayn, Erich Ludendorff, Conrad von Hotzendorff or Enver Pascha for the Central Powers, or Ferdinand Foch, Philippe Petain, Douglas Haig or Tsar Nicolas on the Entente side.
In order to obtain a feeling as close as possible we wanted to start the game as historically correct as possible! Thus the start setup was meticulously researched!
First question that arose beforehand was when to start.
Ottoman Turkey joined almost 3 months after the outbreak of war!
To prevent a Turkish player from being excluded from the first round we decided that the game should start right before the Turkish war entry on 29th October 1914 with the bombing of the Russian Black Sea Ports.
So starting with Germany, where did Kluck’s First Army stand at that time? Or von Bulow’s Second? (and so on…)
Studying the respective maps in Bundeswehr university we realized that the famous “Race to the Sea” had almost come to an end with only few spaces left for movement at the end of October 1914. In result, the really interesting question for the German HQ (German player) is how to manage the “Zweifrontenkrieg” that should have been avoided at all costs! Do you resume the offensive in the West? And if so, how hard will you press? And what about the “forgotten” Eastern Front? Which delicate balance might lead to glorious vitory?
Now, to obtain a correct setup there is the question of what the units ahould represent.
From the World War One Data Factbook we opted for the following guideline as it has military reasoning and was fitting very well:
1 Infantry miniature represents roughly 10 Divisions (often an army)(depending on nation about 15.000 men per infantry division).
1 Artillery " " " 800 guns (6 or 4 guns per battery)
1 Cavalry " " " 5 Divisions. (depending on nation about 5.000 men per cavalry disision)
1 Recon/Fighter 60 planes (UK should get one; G/F 3/2 ratio)
1 Destroyer 32 ships (4 Flottillas)
1 Cruiser 16 ships (4 Squadrons)
1 Dreadnought 8 ships (2 Divisions)
1 Battlecruiser 4 ships (1 Squadron; UK Jutland: 3 ships BC Squadron (attached to Home Fleet) + 6 ships separate BC Fleet)
1 Submarine 10 boats (~ 1 Flottilla)
There is one exception to this unit key which is Africa:
If the above key were used there would be one Infantry in South Africa and that is it!
Sad, if such an interesting war area would be completely lost right from the start.
So to get at least some units on the African continent all units had to be overrepresented just as much so that one or two units appear in the crucial territories.
There was much calculation on fighting strength as well as - for instance - a German infantry had a higher one than a Russian one. Many Russian soldiers did not even have an own rifle because of production problems. They were simply told to pick one up from a dead comrade! :evil:
Voila!
The resulting setup does not make historical A&A “mistakes” like 16 infantry for over 4 million German soldieis, whereas Japan gets 16 infatry as well for just 1,4 million soldiers in the Anniversary setup for instance.
And in addition, every unit rightfully stands where it stands representing the historical forces!
That was a tough one!
Part 2: The Map
P.S.: After 3 reports it might be time for some resumee: What do you like? What do you miss personally? Any constructive feedback - or praise :wink: - would really be appreciated and might improve the experience for all!
@Coach
Thank you very much for the extensive answer!
ANd I fully understand your reasoning!
(I hope though that a time will come for your company that you can afford such a special set with perfect details (here: colour) as the starting point for an entirely new line (here: WW1)!)
And I DO like the release of the set especially the fact that it comes with the right basic units!
Btw what will the 12th miniature be? A Machine Gunner, a 2nd (early war) Infantry or something else?
The destroyer? The transport?
For me as a “history geek” it would have been Christmas to get the 100% WW1 release but honestly I am fine with the set as long as the light blue is really a light blue (not turquoise or with turquoise nuances)! (cannot say as I only own basic A&A sets from HBG)
kind regards
Stefan
Eudemonist understood it right: Of course Kill Italy (fast) and Kill Russia (fast) is meant.
Point is: I am especially interested how an Italy Crush would be effectively performed! And if it it a viable strategy at all!
Purchases, Moves, Battles per round for all forces as of course one crucial point is how to balance the other fronts if moving as much as possible towards Italy!
And what is the maximum pressure there? How much of the new builds can go towards Italy? What are the best OT moves to support the strategy … and so on.
A detailled picture…
There is no such thing as “Swiss strategy”.
If you don’t make Switzerland impassable then all German Munich Forces take Switzerland every game and with that Switzerland is out already.
The point is how to continue!
@coachofmany:
All of HBG Neutral Colors plus French OOB Blue from Global 40
Why not the correct horizon blue WWI colour?
Is everything that matters fitting in existing WW2 miniatures?
What’s the point? After all it is a WW1(!) set.
Or to put it in other words: What’s the point in using a Renault FT17 WWI tank in a WW2 match anyway?
The units were not used at that time anymore! (some very odd exceptions only).
Why not thinking of creating a whole new WW1 line for those who really are interested in playing WW1 (ONE) instead?
And with this mindset of course the historically correct colour ought to be the prime colour of the set!
After that …whatever…Global 40 OOB Blue? I don’t care!
(release a French WW2 set as well because the Europe 1940 1st/2nd ed. OOB is (Russian) crap anyway!)
No.
If there were a set of 20 different unit types, ok.
But in a basic 12 types set, simply no.
So is it here like in most internet forums?
IF it comes to constructive work which might need some effort all posters are gone!
Bla bla bla seems all that counts…! :-(
Has anybody elaborated a at least theoretically consistent Italy strategy?
Following this thread previously you already know which unit types will be included (page 1), so what’s the point of your post?
There will be no zeppellins, Rail Guns or Forts so…?
This way opens the door for economical warfare as it is supposed to be:
Subs raided merchant ships in WWI and WWII!
They ATTACKED them directly so this move ought to be in the sub’s owners turn!!!
New submarine rules and destroyers are the way to go for 2nd edition or if not there in a hopefully coming BIG Anniversary edition like WWI game with TECH and DIPLOMACY.
ASW would be a destroyer tech including hydrophones (for better detecting) and depth charges (allow one shot after submerging at 1)
Btw cruiser don’t battle submarines.
Well, if not, I have my own WWi game and there all this is properly implemented! :-D
Randomness is totally unaffected if a hit happens on a 2-, 3- or 4 unit.
You always have a certain chance - that’s it.
The game is as unpredictable or predictable as all previous axis games in terms of the rolls.