That Japan can take the Dutch Indies without being at war with the US…
Posts made by Tolstoj
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RE: China?
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What do you buy, and why?
Hi everyone!
I am very curious to know what you all buy the first two round. I understand that this depends sometimes on what is happening on the board (especially with Italy and UK), so you can give several options…
This is what I buy (we play without aireal bombardments). Let’s say Germany DOW Russia in G2 and Japan DOW in J3:
G1 = carrier + 2 subs (I save 2, so I CAN buy an extra transport in R2)
G2 = 10 artillery + Mech Inf and tanks…R1 = 7 artillery + 3 infantry
R2 = 4 artillery + 7 infantryJ1 = Minor IC + 2 transports
J2 = 3 Mech Inf + 2 destroyers + 2 subsUS1 = 3 carriers (Pacific)
US2 = 4 destroyers + 4 subs (Pacific)UK1 = 6 inf + fighter
UK2 = carrier + destroyer + sub + ?ANZAC1 = sub or transport
ANZAC2 = carrierIndia1 = 2 mech inf + 3 inf
India2 = 2 mech inf + 4 infItaly1 = sub
Italy2 = sub + ???(You can leave China out).
Thoughts?
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RE: China?
I’m playing a gam right now where my opponent is somewhat struggling with Japan, finally! Unfortunately it is because he made a few mistakes, but still.
The main reason is that I could place 18 Russian infantry in Manchuria in R3. The Chinese forces will be destroyed though, one way or the other. The Chinese fighter is going to escape to Manchuria…
Stil a bit of hope for China!
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RE: Japan is too strong?
When I attack in J3 I have 7 transportships. When I attack in J2 I have 5, so yes I take ALL the islands very easily! Certainly by R4 (I usually have them all by R3)!
J1 (26 IPC): 2 transport 1 Minor IC
J2 (40 IPC): 3 Mech Inf, 2 sub, 2 destr => DOW!!!
J3 (48 IPC): 3 Mech Inf, 1 Minor IC, carrier, destroyerWith the US I buy 3 carriers the first round: these are the only units that can help the initial fleet in R4 in SZ 54/Carolines…
Very curious how you all do it!
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RE: China?
I am now playing a game in which Japan is DOW in J2.
Again only Russia or the UK can help China, because the initial Japanese units are used to kill off the Chinese. We’re now trying to spread out, but I don’t see that helping the Chinese. And Russia is now threatening to take Manchuria (with 18 infantry), but that also doesn’t help much.
Landing 5 or 6 planes (UK/Russian) doesn’t help much either. Japan is happy to destroy those to in R4!
Look in R4 Japan has so much more fleet and air units that the ANZAC/US fleet is behind 5-6 units. India cannot step forward. You are right that Japan has much to do in J3, and maybe they prevent Japan from taking all the treasure islands in R4, but after that Japan is master of both sea and land!
I’m really interested to know what it is we’re doing wrong, what can ANZAC do? What can the US do? If Japan builds 1 carrier in R3 and R4, with some destroyers and subs, the allies never have enough to counter that.
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RE: Are Allies doomed from the outset on G40 map?
No, I think the main problem is that the Axis don’t have to do anything, but wait, to win after R4. Because they have more income…
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RE: Japan is too strong?
Japan takes ALL the money islands in turn 4. China is beaten with the initial units from set-up plus only 3 Mech Inf. Japan doesn’t have to buy much (factory and 3 Mech = 24 IPC) to take China.
The rest of the IPC’s can be spend on fleet. No way allies have that many ships as Japan in round 4. So when China is down you can concentrate on ANZAC and US…
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RE: China?
Good day Tolstoj. I have done relatively well with China in a few games. It is a completely different animal to play. It is a guerrila war in that you do not immediately plan to drive your enemy out with sweeping battles. It is a war of attrition. Think of the Soviets in Afghanastan in the early 80’s and the US in Vietnam. The point was to make the enemy pay for every territory they took and and they couldn’t count on any territory being secure. The Chinese “pop up” in any owned territory. The Japanese player must leave defending troops behind or be threatened with losing an unguarded territory. China is to slow the roll of the Japanese…not defeat them until later in the game when China with some UK help, can claim all of the mainland. ShadowHAwk is right. Spread out and become a thorn in the Japanese players…neck. If you use house rules, add some artillery or consider allowing the US to supply additional flying tigers before they enter the war.
My point is that it is not a war of attrition (Ermattungskrieg in Delbrück’s terms) if Japan goes in in full strength. But I will try this tactik (of spreading out) in the next game. But spreading out is against all I know about A&A-strategy. From Shensi Japan can wipe out all Chinese units, no matter where they are spread out…
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RE: China?
My China attack goes as follows:
J1 you take four Chinese territories: Chahar with 2 inf., Ahnwe with 3 art.+1 Mech+6 Inf, Hunan with 2 inf+1 art (1 inf dead) and Yunnan with 1 inf+1 art (2 inf dead). You place 3/4 inf on Jehol behind this invasion force, and you land 1 armor in Kiangsi. You buy a MIC on Kiangsu.
China can only converge on Shensi to stay alive, and usually takes Yunnan back (if possible): 12 inf+fighter…
J2 Japan takes Yunnan (2 inf), Kweichow (4 art+6 inf+mech+armor), Hopei (1 inf) and Suiyuan (1 inf and 3/4 behind). You buy 3 mech inf on Kiangsu.
China usually goes to Kansu with 16 inf and fighter…
J3 Japan takes Shensi and puts 3 mech inf on Hopei.
How is China going to escape from this?
It does not need to. UK-Pac will be making 25 a turn, Anzac 14 and later 24 for a few rounds.
How will you even condider attacking the stack of 30+ units in india any time soon?UK-Pac can even declare war and attack your stacks in yuhan from burma.
With this strat you are not attacking anything else but china and yes as allies ill take that bargainANZAC never reaches more then 14 IPC when I’m playing Japan. How can they reach 24? I never let them take Dutch New Guinea without taking it back, and I always take the treasure islands back. And India is no threat to the Japan, even if they reach 30 units. I always make sure they can’t move forward or be crushed in the process.
I do not stack any unit in Yunnan, I take it with minimal force. So UK-Pac can do no harm. UK-Pac cannot move any units to Burma, because Japan can wipe those units out (from the Philipines or other)…
I’m still not convinced how you can stop Japan from taking China in one go in R4…
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RE: China?
My China attack goes as follows:
J1 you take four Chinese territories: Chahar with 2 inf., Ahnwe with 3 art.+1 Mech+6 Inf, Hunan with 2 inf+1 art (1 inf dead) and Yunnan with 1 inf+1 art (2 inf dead). You place 3/4 inf on Jehol behind this invasion force, and you land 1 armor in Kiangsi. You buy a MIC on Kiangsu.
China can only converge on Shensi to stay alive, and usually takes Yunnan back (if possible): 12 inf+fighter…
J2 Japan takes Yunnan (2 inf), Kweichow (4 art+6 inf+mech+armor), Hopei (1 inf) and Suiyuan (1 inf and 3/4 behind). You buy 3 mech inf on Kiangsu.
China usually goes to Kansu with 16 inf and fighter…
J3 Japan takes Shensi and puts 3 mech inf on Hopei.
How is China going to escape from this?
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RE: Japan is too strong?
You can also wait a turn and bring the Japanese infantry in reach (I never use fighters, but it is a good option when you can wipe the complete Chinese army out in one stroke).
How are you going to defend China in R4? With Russian troops? Not when Germany goes for Barbarossa…
Please tell me if I have overlooked something, but I ALWAYS completely wipe China out in R4. Maybe my opponents are doing something wrong…
My China attack goes as follows:
**J1 you take four Chinese territories: Chahar with 2 inf., Ahnwe with 3 art.+1 Mech+6 Inf, Hunan with 2 inf+1 art (1 inf dead) and Yunnan with 1 inf+1 art (2 inf dead). You place 3/4 inf on Jehol behind this invasion force, and you land 1 armor in Kiangsi. You buy a MIC on Kiangsu.
China can only converge on Shensi to stay alive, and usually takes Yunnan back (if possible): 12 inf+fighter…
J2 Japan takes Yunnan (2 inf), Kweichow (4 art+6 inf+mech+armor), Hopei (1 inf) and Suiyuan (1 inf and 3/4 behind). You buy 3 mech inf on Kiangsu.
China usually goes to Kansu with 16 inf and fighter…
J3 Japan takes Shensi and puts 3 mech inf on Hopei.**
How is China going to escape from this?
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RE: Are Allies doomed from the outset on G40 map?
There are a few adjustments you can do, without really destroying the essence of the game:
- Remove a fighter and TB from Japan;
- Add destroyer to American Atlantic fleet;
- Add sub to Indian fleet;
- Add bomber to Moscow;
(- Add 10 IPC to US income).
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RE: Japan is too strong?
Better off putting that factory in Shangtung as opposed to Shanghai. You can get south just as quickly but you are able to reach Manchuria in a turn in case you need to deal with Russians/Americans there :wink:
What China can do is take Yunan back turn 1 and turn 2, thus forcing Japan to keep taking it back, and keep enough troops in Szchewan at the end of turn 2 that Japan has to commit a considerable amount of troops to Yunan if they plan on keeping it from there on out (which they can do if need be). However, if the Siberian troops march into Korea or Manchuria then Japan cannot just say “Screw the north.”
That’s why I believe the key to stopping Japan is to try and make them and do everything, which they cannot. They cannot wipe out China, AND keep the Siberian troops at bay, AND take India, AND fight back the American navy, AND hang onto the money islands, AND hold a 6th VC, etc. Now, the allies have to play a great game to make these things happen, but it CAN be done is the point.
China can’t stack Szechwan to retake Yunnan on C1 because Japan will just attack the stack with its 20 planes and kill it, so the Chinese troops have to cede Yunnan after only 1 turn.
Thank you! So Japan can kill of all Chinese units when wanted in R4?
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How to handle the Italian fleet R1?
Do you attack the Italian fleet in R1? If so, how many ships/aircraft do you use?
In other words: what is the best way to attack Italy in R1 in your opinion?
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RE: Japan is too strong?
I think we played about ten games now. And I have perhaps learned more here then playing the game. ;)
Still I think Japan is too strong, but I will change my allies-strategy the next game and what happens. With the 18 Russian units Moscow is usually safe one or two turns. The units from India are no use in my experience, but again I have to try this…
I am curious where you put the Japanese navy in J1 and J2! I usually DOW US/UK in J3, but when you DOW in J1 or J2… ???
My China attack goes as follows:
J1 you take four Chinese territories: Chahar with 2 inf., Ahnwe with 3 art.+1 Mech+6 Inf, Hunan with 2 inf+1 art (1 inf dead) and Yunnan with 1 inf+1 art (2 inf dead). You place 3/4 inf on Jehol behind this invasion force, and you land 1 armor in Kiangsi. You buy a MIC on Kiangsu.
China can only converge on Shensi to stay alive, and usually takes Yunnan back (if possible): 12 inf+fighter…
J2 Japan takes Yunnan (2 inf), Kweichow (4 art+6 inf+mech+armor), Hopei (1 inf) and Suiyuan (1 inf and 3/4 behind). You buy 3 mech inf on Kiangsu.
China usually goes to Kansu with 16 inf and fighter…
J3 Japan takes Shensi and puts 3 mech inf on Hopei.
How is China going to escape from this?
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China?
In my experience China doesn’t outlive the 4th round. Japan has about 30 units to strike in that round and China has about 18 units to defend (Kansu where they usually retreat to).
What is your experience with China?
Thanks!
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Contain Germany
The US has to make the big choices for the allies in the game: will it contain Germany or Japan. We have talked about Japan in my previous post. But now I am curious how you all contain Germany.
We usually go for Norway, but that’s a tough nut to crunge. Especially because we are usually more focussed on containing Japan the first rounds.
How do you do it? What’s the role of the US and what of the UK?
Thanks!
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RE: Japan is too strong?
Okay thanks all!
The Allies need some outside help then. I think I might remove more Japanese aircraft, and/or give the US more money.
In my experience the 18 Russsian troops of the east withdraw to postpone the German attack on Moscow and China (as I said) is ALWAYS destoyed in R4. I cannot imagine how you cannot destroy China in R4 (only hard-pressed Russia can really prevent that)…
Mech Inf to China from India: I don’t see that happening but I will try my next game. Our allied subs are always spread out to irritate the Japanese and the allies try to take the treasure islands, but (at least when I am playing Japan) Japan always gets them back! The main thing is: the allied combined main fleet is smaller then the Japanese fleet, so the allies have to keep their distance.
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RE: Key strategy Axis
Okay, thank you. DOW vs. US/UK in J1 is not a good strategy combined with Sea Lion…
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RE: Japan is too strong?
The weaker player is always on the defence, at least that is what a strategist like Von Cleasewitz teaches us. ;)
What weak spots does Japan have?
If I attack with all my Allied transport Japan will still shoot them down and will retake every island I attack… Japan has simply more planes and ships (including transports)… Smaller attacks will only weaken the allies. I have a Japanese MIC at Kwantung so Japan can retake every island from there.
Mech Inf to help China? Every piece I put forward will be shot down by the Japanese airforce and one or two infantry nearby. Japan has eight groundunits in Shan State. Japan has bought an MIC in FIC. If the Indian army goes forward, Japan will delay China and attack India of course… You only need one/two infantry and some air units to kill of 3 Mech Inf…
That’s why I land my bombers in Shan State: from there they can fly back in three paces (Java/Sumatra, the rest of the islands are covered from the Philipines). What else should they bomb? The Chinese army is defeated, so Japan only has to wait it out, the Axis have more income…